Juan Carlos last week.
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| ADF Serials Message Board > Navy Aircraft - Royal Australian Navy Fleet Air Arm > Lhd And Osprey |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Oct 28 2015, 06:00 AM |
| Some of you may know that at Rimpac 2016 the LHD Canberra is scheduled to crossdeck USMC Ospreys. Last week the Spanish facilitated a 4-ship USMC Osprey recovery and launch pattern. For the record.......the RAN LHDs have the exact same hardened, reinforced flight deck as the Juan Carlos I. All claims in the media, think tanks and elsewhere to the contrary are 100 per cent wrong. Not that they will stop their pig-ignorant drivel. Ho hum. |
| Posted by: Luig Oct 28 2015, 12:23 PM |
| Thanks 'FlyCookie'. I'm looking forward to that never ending story yet to be released 2015 'white paper' (probably of the toilet kind) about why no "Oz F-35Bs on Oz LHDs" which may shed light on the LHD 'deficiencies' - so-called - notwithstanding shedloads of evidence about the LHD being designed to support F-35Bs (with good info known when it was designed by Spanish). |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Oct 29 2015, 05:55 AM |
| Yeah, it's a funny old world, Luig. Juan Carlos last week. |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Oct 29 2015, 05:57 AM |
And for good measure, a couple of vids.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiOZLN22vkQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_kTLUeS-nU |
| Posted by: Luig Oct 29 2015, 08:04 AM |
| Nice thanks. Now the LHDs with Ospreys look like they have worth but hey they do anyway I guess. Somewhere out there recently there is a photo (on The Diplomat website?) showing ARMY GUNS blazing away on deck. Cannot find it though. :-( |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Oct 29 2015, 08:35 AM |
Hey Luig, that's actually the ship's main armament. You know, a return to wooden walls, studdingsails, futtock shrouds, floggings at the grate and all that. Get really, really close to the baddies and let rip! Maybe they'll rename them as HMA ships Nelson and Trafalgar.   BTW LHD ADELAIDE has departed Melbourne and is now en route to Sydney for commissioning. RAN crew are embarked, with BAE/Navantia dudes holding their hands, and so on. Following vid taken during ADELAIDE's second round of contractor's trials, in August. Off the south coast of NSW. Have a gander - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWtUZkcM7Kg |
| Posted by: Luig Oct 29 2015, 09:26 AM |
| Thanks - that is the pic! Wot a BROADSIDE. Avast me hearties - standby to standby for the BOOya! I guess they have to wait until they see the whites of their eyes before letting every which way but loose - GO! :-) There is always something nostalgically sad about a 'fast' helo flyby a deck. |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Oct 29 2015, 04:23 PM |
| Videos look good! How quick is that auto blade unfold/fold - we having nothing like this  While I can see flight line deck space for 4 x Ospreys operating simultaneously, I only see 3 Ospreys in the pic and videos  Our Army and Navy are way behind this capability with the MRH-90....  |
| Posted by: Luig Oct 29 2015, 04:38 PM |
| Here is one website but does not mention numbre: http://www.armada.mde.es/ArmadaPortal/page/Portal/ArmadaEspannola/conocenos_noticias/prefLang_en/00_noticias--2015--09--NT-169-MV22-TOMA-JCI-INGLES_en?_selectedNodeID=2284496&_pageAction=selectItem The LHD ‘Juan Carlos I’ operates with a US V-22 ‘Osprey’ 295 Mb .AVI video: http://www.armada.mde.es/archivo/ocs-ajema/videos/2015/NT-169/Osprey%20en%20JCI.avi This download is excruciatingly SLOW.... For a Video all of 1min 20sec duration. I'll put it on Youtube. MV-22B USMC VMM-261 Osprey LHD JCI Juan Carlos I 15 Sep 15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6kVheCSsEI _____________________ http://navaltoday.com/2015/09/15/us-spanish-navies-practice-helicopter-landing/ & anotherie viddy or six: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRBUEvcJAA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-v7_gvGA-Q |
| Posted by: Dave Masterson Oct 29 2015, 07:11 PM | ||
Nice Videos FC, thanks for posting |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Oct 30 2015, 08:14 AM |
| No worries, Dave. The same people who bang on about the LHD flight deck not being up to much also maintain as an article of faith that rotary and fast air can't operate from the same deck. Alas, that fact somehow passed by the RN in 1966(I think?) when they trialled an early Harrier in HMS Bulwark with helos, and the Spanish last week. And, of course, the Americans, the Spanish, the Indians and the Italians. Ho hum. |
| Posted by: Luig Oct 30 2015, 09:30 AM |
Oh GAWD the magic of Photo Shop :-) But But But wot about the FOD?!  Just kiddin' - it really was a work out with multiple V-22s and at least one hairier. |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Oct 30 2015, 09:44 AM |
| FOD? Fod-plod, Armada Española style.......... BTW number of Harriers embarked last week is unknown. |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Nov 1 2015, 08:27 PM |
| Air Force appears to have more interest in the LHD's than the Navy and Army! Every time Adelaide hits port she is overflown by Hercs! Speaking of Adelaide when does she commission? |
| Posted by: Luig Nov 2 2015, 12:41 AM |
| Wicked Pedia says: "...fitting out progressed faster than expected and the ship is now predicted to commission in late 2015." |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Nov 2 2015, 05:29 AM |
| First fortnight of December. Still working on a date, but it has to be before ADF Christmas hols begin in middle of month. Re the above quote "faster than expected" that's not accurate. Work on L02 in Melbourne was deliberately slow (-ish), to get things right. Assorted tests were done with her that will not be replicated with L01. Contrary to McPhedran's rubbish in The Australian newspaper, L02 was not riddled with thousands of dire defects and was not late. Indeed, the whole LHD has proceeded according to schedule. Such defects as existed were along the lines of "Lt Luig reports that his cabin door is a bit squeaky. Action this day = a few drops of Singer sewing machine oil in the hinges of Lt Luig's cabin door." Not exactly Earth-shattering stuff. Grumpy Cobra, you're right! RAAF is certainly putting in an effort with Herky-bird flypasts for the big barges. BZ RAAF. |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Nov 17 2015, 02:15 AM |
| Some very nice images (during the same exercise as Fly Cookie's pics) courtesy of the Armada - makes one think what could have been for Australia, some "Thunder Box" policy institute (which shall remain nameless) refuses to publish such images as it contradicts the lard they put out on the LHD's RE their analysis that the LHD's require very extensive modifications to handle F-35B/MV-22... http://www.armada.mde.es/ArmadaPortal/ShowBinaryServlet?nodePath=/BEA%20Repository/Desktops/Portal/ArmadaEspannola/Pages/conocenos_noticias/00_noticias/2015/11/NT-222-DESLPLIEGUE-UNAEMB-OSPREY_en/FOTO-03//imagen&scale=none http://www.armada.mde.es/ArmadaPortal/ShowBinaryServlet?nodePath=/BEA%20Repository/Desktops/Portal/ArmadaEspannola/Pages/conocenos_noticias/00_noticias/2015/11/NT-222-DESLPLIEGUE-UNAEMB-OSPREY_en/FOTO-01//imagen&scale=none |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Nov 19 2015, 07:55 AM |
| Hey Grumpy, I wouldn't worry about fiction from ASPI. After all, no-one in ADF of DoD circles does. Anyway, you were interested in seeing four Ospreys? Et voila...... |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Nov 20 2015, 05:57 PM |
| Room enough to spare there! Interestingly, (if the following article is to be believed and thats a big "if") our new CH-47F's may come fitted with auto blade fold as standard http://www.ingeniumtech.com/services/design/details/?id=4 "Newer Boeing CH-47 Chinook helicopters are equipped with automatic blade folding to allow the aircraft to be quickly and easily stored. Older Chinook helicopters employ a manual process to fold blades." Very handy for ship board ops - even if they cannot fit in the hangar (as is), big advantage over our Euro Taipans if true! Off topic I read some time ago that Juan Carlos has a VIP elevator fitted! All the way from bottom decks to bridge level - what a boat! |
| Posted by: Luig Nov 21 2015, 12:29 AM |
| A recent visitor to an LHD mentioned the much climbing of many ladders during an inspection. How HIGH is that thing above the waterline (and below) ships company are going to be very 'step fit' indeed. Been on a ship lately? |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Nov 21 2015, 04:58 PM |
| Yes went aboard Carl Vinson and the climb to the bridge deck was a killer! No VIP lift there No wonder the Island on Canberra is so looong - all the Fat Cat perks - but there is an expense to be paid - less flight deck space! |
| Posted by: Luig Nov 21 2015, 07:13 PM | ||
Hmmm, I guess you are just funning us. Have you considered what is in the LONG ISLAND? Details can be sketchy for obvious reasons however there are general sketches that indicate the island is well populated with spaces (reconfigurable I believe) for all kinds of OpControlComms stuff. Is that too much info?
Confoundingly I would like to know - given the LHD dimensions - what would be adequate flight deck space in your opinion - and for what purpose? Below is a 'to scale' flight deck compare between LHD and ye olde HMAS Melbourne with now forgotten HMAS Manoora thrown in. I guess an RN CVS deck addition would be appropriate also but this is something made earlier. THIS SHORT VIDEO shows a Spanith Harrier approach to their LHD with a view of the flight deck and that BIG ISLAND just getting in the way. L 61 Juan Carlos I Apontaje de un harrier - Spanish aircraft carrier operations https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KIagzoiytI AND just for LAFFs go here for a thought about Networkable Fleet Defence. RAAF F-35Bs on RAN LHDs for ADF Fleet AIR Defence Network https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQecuTwBdw |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Nov 21 2015, 07:51 PM |
| You are kidding right? "For what purpose" - have a guess? And no its not to play hockey! |
| Posted by: Luig Nov 21 2015, 07:57 PM |
| Well then that is no answer so I'll assume you have no clue what the LHD requirements are for the ADF. See above. |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Nov 21 2015, 11:10 PM |
| Well then that is no answer - so you have no clue as to how to guess - see above! PS: Your "flight deck plan" of the LHD is not very accurate, or did you miss the glaring inaccuracy? |
| Posted by: Luig Nov 21 2015, 11:28 PM |
| I seem to not give a fig what you think. My graphics are as is. IF you see a problem then say so. Are you a girl? |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Nov 22 2015, 04:45 AM |
| Well then just keep on peddling your blinding dribble! |
| Posted by: Luig Nov 22 2015, 04:55 AM |
| You are the master of the dribble - you should play girl soccer. |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Nov 22 2015, 05:27 PM |
| Lots of girls visiting HMAS Canberra today along with Japanese Minister of Defence and associates, and assorted admirals and generals, that VIP elevator must have had one hell of a work out! |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Nov 25 2015, 06:58 AM |
| LHD Adelaide commissions, at FBE, on Friday, December 4. Grumpy, that LHD flight deck image above was an RAN PR job, released a few years ago. It's only meant to be indicative, not authoritative. Asked someone with primary knowledge of both JCI and the Canberras, and there's no VIP lift. Sorry! Nice story, but.  The long island stems from internal exhaust trunking requirements. It had no impact on any 'air' considerations. Bonus fun fact: Adelaide is 53cm longer than Canberra. Officially the biggest warship in RAN history. Finally, to both Luig and Grumpy, howzabout just playing nice, eh?  |
| Posted by: Luig Nov 25 2015, 11:06 AM |
| Any reason given? "...Bonus fun fact: Adelaide is 53cm longer than Canberra. Officially the biggest warship in RAN history...." Did someone flatten the ski jump a tad? |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Nov 25 2015, 06:47 PM |
| I believe the climb is about 4 to 5 levels from flight deck to bridge! Such an accomplishment on the gang ways of HMAS Canberra by our new MINDEF is an impressive accomplishment! Navantia's marketing shows VIP elevator on Juan Carlos on page 10 of said brochure see: https://www.navantia.es/ckfinder/userfiles/files/sala_pr/folleto%20LHD_marzo_para%20navantia_ingles.pdf Many other open sources too: "With the purpose of movement of various loads, as well as lifts that have been pointed out, the "LHD Juan Carlos I" has a light-load elevator of 20 tons between decks 4th and 1st. A 2-ton lift of ammunition, a 1-ton lift to the hospital, 1 VIP lift, a 2-ton food hoist, and also a 250 kg ramp between Hangar/light vehicles deck and heavy vehicles garage." So Fly Cookie if your sources are correct and the rubbish I have sourced on the Navantia's marketing etc.. is correct (more unlikely) we have uncovered a major design change from Juan Carlos to Canberra! As the supposed VIP elevator space spans many decks! But don't tell Luiq as he will have a fit! That Long Island also has a dedicated garage for Tilly crane etc... and 20 meter lap pool  |
| Posted by: Luig Nov 25 2015, 07:24 PM |
| From that PDF here is a graphic for the JCI LIFTs: https://www.navantia.es/ckfinder/userfiles/files/sala_pr/folleto LHD_marzo_para navantia_ingles.pdf (2.3Mb) |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Nov 26 2015, 03:31 AM |
| A lift in a warship is one thing, a lift reserved solely for VIPs is quite another. Do you think the CO and XO, for example, will use it when the ship's closed up for action stations? Also, good luck with creating and maintaining good order when the brass have their own 7-items-or-less aisle to the office.......... Much of open source stuff regarding these ships is rubbish, and the reportage and allegedly expert commentary even worse. Yet, somehow all is well in Spanish and Australian naval country, and proceeding apace. Agree that guiding Payne's generous girth around a warship could present an issue..... Luig, dunno why L01 is a tad longer. Just one of those things. You might be right, and someone took a hammer to the ski-jump, just because. The pool is only 20 metres long? Pfft! The crew should mutiny until it's a full monty Olympic 50 metres, with ensuite velodrome. |
| Posted by: Luig Nov 26 2015, 06:50 AM |
| 'FlyCookie' agree about the public info on LHDs. I have a poor diagram that vaguely hints at a few things in the ISLAND but I thought: 'why bother'? The earlier Oz ARMY text excerpt makes it clear however that space for their gubbins in said spaces is tight. However I believe a lot of these spaces are reconfigurable according to the mission of the day - which makes sense if true. There is an old Oz LHD INFO video that was not on Youtube at the time, some years ago now - probably it is there now - I think it showed 'inside the island'? I'll look. |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Nov 26 2015, 07:07 AM |
| Indeed. Will be interesting to see how the logistics people perform at the next Talisman Sabre, when both LHDs will operate stuffed to the gunwales with army kit and kaboodle. |
| Posted by: Luig Nov 26 2015, 07:55 AM |
| Video from about the 1min 22sec minute mark [second URL] the ISLAND insides are shown with some explanation about some of the spaces. The quality is better than the original first shown on the RAN website (it may be there - I'll look). BAE LHD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFjY0ZrT5eY https://youtu.be/LFjY0ZrT5eY?t=82 __________________________ This video has a walk-in brief about some of the spaces including the ISLAND that part starts at about the 3min mark: Inside HMAS Canberra https://youtu.be/jE1duC5EvhU?t=182 OR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE1duC5EvhU |
| Posted by: Luig Dec 2 2015, 08:13 AM |
| Just hearsay of course - I wonder when the White Toilet Roll unfolds? 2016? No F-35Bs for RAN LHDs – report - July 8, 2015 by australianaviation.com.au http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/07/no-f-35bs-for-ran-lhds-report/ COMMENT: http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/07/no-f-35bs-for-ran-lhds-report/comment-page-1/#comment-34278 “Chris G says : July 10, 2015 at 3:20 pm BH the best document in the public domain re Spanish Navy ships is http://infodefensa.com/wp-content/uploads/JCI_en_v2.pdf (13.8Mb). The only changes to ours were in the starboard island structure particularly the ops rooms. I have confirmed that storage quantities are at least equal to those stated above without identifying by whom. People stating they are less are either misinformed or confusing long UK, metric and short USA quantities and specific gravity volume to weight conversions. Spain designed Juan Carlos 1 for the F35B before the exhaust heat issue was fully known. The unique fueldraulic activation and focus of the exhaust on deck was lessened plus coatings found by the USN via trials on Wasp. The aircraft elevators dimensions are F35B compliant and weight limit MTOW. The hangar width is 2 x F35B wingspan plus. JC1 has a Precision Approach RADAR at the aft end of the island structure ours would need. Our RADARs are also different. After the Sea Giraffe is replaced by CEAFAR on the ANZACs post 2017 the same will become operationally unusable on our LHDs because opposing ESM will identify the high value LHDs immediately it is fired up. CEAFAR was still undergoing trials at the time the LHD tender went out. LHD sensors are going to have to be replaced in the near term anyway. The main reason we need F35Bs at sea is because the RAAF cannot secure our ALOCs or SLOCs in the Indian, Pacific and Southern Oceans AOs from fixed bases from reasonable threats with their current equipment, acquisition plans and structure as nations like China and India develop their sea based fixed wing assets in that region. Never mind the aspiration of Japan and South Korea who have both built flat tops over the last decade or so. Italy, Spain, Turkey and other Europeans have acquired/are considering fixed wing aircraft at sea because they know the power projection advantages France, Russia, UK and USA have had securing ALOCs and SLOCs and intervening in conflicts when nearby air and sea ports were either denied politically, damaged by conflict or natural disaster or non existent.” |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Dec 13 2015, 08:48 AM | ||
Hey Grumpy, a nice vid has surfaced showing the folding. Cool stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO4m6sNfqZY |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Dec 22 2015, 09:24 AM |
| Requisite viewing for our Defence Purchasing Possums! Bring on RIMPAC 16 |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Jan 20 2016, 06:42 PM |
"It would seem no mission is impossible for HMAS Canberra as the huge slab side of her island was transformed into a movie screen while at anchor in Jervis Bay recently." http://www.contactairlandandsea.com/2015/12/03/no-mission-impossible-canberra/ |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Jan 27 2016, 07:53 AM |
| A true multirole ship: first, a cinema, and now a cricket pitch....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CfvrYy1TpA |
| Posted by: Luig Jul 15 2016, 02:46 AM |
| Have read online that soon a video of the first V-22 landing aboard HMAS Canberra will be seen? I have looked to no avail (patience grasshopper). |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Jul 15 2016, 05:41 PM |
| ...and its Lucky side number 13 |
| Posted by: Luig Jul 15 2016, 05:47 PM |
| VIDEO: https://www.facebook.com/RoyalAustralianNavy/videos/vb.123855294295846/1370362452978451/?type=2&theater RIMPAC 2016: RAN conducts deck landing operations with MV-22 Osprey Ridzwan Rahmat 15 Jul 2016 "In a sign of improving interoperability between armed forces of the two countries, a US Marine Corps (USMC) MV-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft has conducted successful deck landings on board the Royal Australian Navy's (RAN's) first-of-class amphibious assault ship HMAS Canberra (L 02). The landing was conducted off the coast of Hawaii as part of the Rim of the Pacific ('RIMPAC') 2016 international naval exercise, the RAN announced via its social media channel on 15 July. 'RIMPAC' represents the platform's first ever participation in an overseas naval exercise. Canberra 's commanding officer, Captain Christopher Smith, told IHS Jane's during an interview in May 2016 that the ship's focus at 'RIMPAC' is to improve its interoperability with partner countries such as the United States...." PHOTO: http://www.janes.com/images/assets/297/62297/p1651621.jpg http://www.janes.com/article/62297/rimpac-2016-ran-conducts-deck-landing-operations-with-mv-22-osprey |
| Posted by: Brugal Jul 17 2016, 05:04 AM |
| Is there any prospect to see Australia buying the MV-22 Osprey in near future? Cheers. |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Jul 23 2016, 01:17 AM |
| Brugal, no, there is no plan to get them. The ADF will have to just live with Osprey envy! Current plans for the LHDs entail very, very limited operational capability, although the navy's public relations people would not agree with that. Ha! Some more Canberra vids from Rimpac..... https://youtu.be/7hdLHx8Set8 https://youtu.be/828tTgYpAyg |
| Posted by: FlyCookie Aug 4 2016, 01:58 AM |
| USMC Huey and Cobra also said hello to Canberra at Rimpac. BTW Canberra has only two (2) RAN MRH-90s embarked at the moment. |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Nov 14 2016, 04:27 PM | ||
Fly Cookie - I am very disappointed in your sources... Channel 10 news just showed our PM touring L02 here in Sydney and you will never guess what they showed - PM with Captain of the boat and another "big hat" getting into said VIP elevator! Now if Luig can attach the video? |
| Posted by: Grumpy Cobra Oct 6 2018, 12:49 PM |
| With Bell/Boeing starting up production for the US Navy of the new CMV-22B COD variant it would have been good to see our ADF place an order for say 16 to 24 of this new variant which has extended range from 860 miles to 1,150 miles with revised sponsons to house the extra fuel so that internal cargo space is not affected. It would be a game changing capability for the ADF that could be coupled to roll on roll off air to air re-fuelling drum kits that could turn the Osprey into a very capable tanker extending the range of the Ospreys for many missions helicopters cannot perform and supporting RAAF Super Hornets/Growlers as well as operations from our 2 LHD's and Choules... when is our ADF going to wake up to the tremendous capability we are wasting in not equipping the LHD's with F-35B and Osprey which can also provide advantages for operations from land bases... |
| Posted by: Invader26 Oct 9 2018, 09:25 PM |
| Another classic case of "fitted for, but not with!" No amphibious AMTRACS either. Those ships should also host short range SAM systems to like the USN equivalents. |