Mrh90 To Replace Blackhawks & Sea Kings, Another decision taken

Minister for Defence Media Mail List
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Monday, 19 June 2006 096/2006


MRH 90 TO REPLACE SEA KING AND BLACK HAWK HELICOPTERS

I am pleased to announce that Government has approved a $ 2 billion acquisition of thirty-four MRH 90 helicopters to replace Navy’s Sea King and Army’s Black Hawk helicopters.

The selection of the MRH 90 complements the Government’s decision in 2004 to acquire an initial twelve MRH 90 helicopters as Army’s additional troop lift helicopter. Delivery of the first twelve is scheduled from December 2007 through to December 2009.

The 34 additional MRH 90s will be assembled in Brisbane. When delivered, the MRH 90s will be based at RAAF base Townsville, Holsworthy Barracks in Sydney and HMAS Albatross in Nowra. A contingent will also be based at a joint training facility at Oakey in Queensland.

The new twin-engine troop lift helicopters will provide opportunities for joint fleet management. These benefits include greater operational flexibility and efficiency through common operational, training and logistic systems and a capability to rotate personnel, aircraft, spare parts and role-specific equipment between troop lift, special operations and maritime support commitments.

The MRH 90 is an extremely capable helicopter featuring a modern damage tolerant design, a large cabin volume with ramp and enhanced levels of marinisation.

The Sea Kings will be retired in 2010, followed by the Black Hawks which will be progressively replaced between 2011 and 2015.

As these MRH 90 aircraft will be assembled in Australia this acquisition of at least 34 aircraft will provide significant opportunities for Australian industry and the Australian Defence Force (ADF) will gain an operating capability within a relatively short time-frame.

The emphasis of the Australian industry package, worth $1.2 billion, is on the development and sustainment of critical aircraft mission system capability. The long term viability of the Australian MRH 90 assembly line will be maximized, ensuring greater development of the skill base required to support the MRH 90 into the future through a strategy aimed at promoting Australian industry as part of the Eurocopter global supply chain.


Media contacts
Nigel Blunden
(Dr Nelson)
02 6277 7800 or 0407 632 931

Defence Media Liaison
02 6265 3343 or 0408 498 664

A bt more detail from the Canberra Times:

$2 billion deal to replace choppers
Ross Peake
Monday, 19 June 2006

The Federal Government will throw a lifeline to defence personnel at Nowra today with the announcement of the purchase of an additional 34 military helicopters.
Prime Minister John Howard is expected to join Defence Minister Brendan Nelson in Canberra to unveil the $2billion deal.

The Eurocopter Multi-Role Helicopter 90 is able to operate from amphibious ships and carry troops, small vehicles and underslung cargo.

The purchase of the new medium-lift choppers confirms the future retirement of the troubled Sea Kings and the once state-of-the-art Black Hawks.

Already 12 MRH90s have been ordered for the army, and will be delivered from December next year.

They will be based at Townsville's Garbutt RAAF Base where Defence already plans to build a $20 million hangar.

The extra 34 choppers will be delivered from 2010 when the Sea Kings will be phased out. Defence sources said last night that the purchase of the MRH90s secured jobs at HMAS Albatross, the navy's only air station.

The new choppers will also begin replacing the Black Hawks from 2015, with most of the total fleet of 46 MRH90s to be based in Queensland.

The new helicopters are expected to be assembled in Queensland by Eurocopter subsidiary Australian Aerospace which has the contract to supply the first batch of 12 MRH90s, along with 22 Tiger armed reconnaissance helicopters. The company already employs 500 staff and plans to create 350 additional jobs over the next two years.

The Defence budget included plans to rationalise the ADF's diversified helicopter fleet under a project worth $5billion. Federal cabinet's National Security Committee has recently been considering the Project Air 9000 helicopter rationalisation plan. A key aim of the project is to stimulate investment in a sustainable local industry base to support the ADF's aircraft fleet.

As part of phase four of the plan, cabinet had to decide whether to upgrade the army's Black Hawk utility helicopters or replace them with MRH90s and whether to accept a US Army offer to supply secondhand Boeing Chinooks.

Dr Nelson had foreshadowed early replacement of the ageing Sea Kings, in phase six, and is considering cancelling the troubled Super Seasprite program. The crash of a Sea King in Indonesia last year killed nine Australians and seriously injured two.

The rationalisation means the military helicopter fleet could be shrunk from 10 different types to just four - Tiger, MRH90, Seahawk and Chinook.

The MRH90 is the local designation for Eurocopter's NH90, more than 400 of which have now been ordered by 11 customers.

From the Defence Department site. 10 July 2006.


NEW HELICOPTERS FOR OUR ARMY AND NAVY





The Prime Minister and I recently announced the decision to acquire at least 34 more MRH 90 helicopters to replace Navy’s 30 year old Sea Kings and Army’s Black Hawk helicopters. With 12 currently on order, our fleet will total 46.

These MRH 90s will give us mobility and flexibility to enhance the ADF’s ability to respond in operations, counter terrorism and disaster relief. As a utility transport helicopter, the MRH 90 is highly suitable for amphibious (ship-to-shore) operations. The MRH 90 could also, for example, fly from Darwin to Dili and be able to conduct operations on arrival without having to refuel. Alternatively, two of these will fit in one of our new C-17 Heavy Lift Aircraft.

By replacing two helicopter types with one, as part of our overall plan to replace 10 types with seven, we will remove duplication. The ADF will benefit from jointly trained Navy and Army crews and a helicopter with land and maritime roles. The result will be improved program management, operational effectiveness, responsiveness and flexibility, value for money and safety.

This acquisition also means up to 350 smart, new jobs for Australians - around 200 in six years of assembly and 150 for ongoing support. In turn, this strengthens our Defence capability.

Does anyone yet know if the Navy will receive its own dedicated MRH90s or will they all be given an "A" prefix and swapped between Army and Navy units as required ?

I would have expected that the Navy might receive perhaps 4-6, at most 10 ? I suspect no ASW role and they will be used as a transport from ships like the Manoora and Kanimbla, very much like the USMC's CH46s.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, it does seem a bit odd that 34 MRH90s will replace the original 39 Blackhawks and 10 Sea Kings (35 and 6 after attrition) ie 34 MRH90s replacing 41 helicopters presently in service. I've deliberately omitted the 12 already on order for the Army as these were supposed to SUPPLEMENT not replace existing airframes - ie give the ADF an increase in helicopter support over those presently in service.

Now that the MRH90 is also seen as a Sea King replacement, I suspect that the 46 MRH90s will be seen as adequate for the Army and Navy needs without giving the ADF any real increase at all.

And as I also mentioned in an earlier post, a Seahwak replacment must not be too far away as they're the same vintage as the Blackhawk ?

So if the MRH90 can't operate from own new frigates as an ASW helicopter, another new type will be required by the ADF - what is in prospect ?

I have heard that the Navy is looking at the NH-90(navalised version) of the helicopter. It is designed primarily for ASW and anti ship warfare. Makes sense as the aircraft is very similar to the Army and Navy troop carrier and cargo versions.

Looks like A Numbers and N Numbers then......... <_< BC

I thought I read somewhere that the MRH90 was too tall for the hangars on the Anzac frigates.

If not, then I guess we will see a navalised version replace the Seahawk for ASW, given an "N" number, but probably not replaced on a one-for-one basis.

If it is designed for anti ship warfare, where does that leave the Seasprite ?

Apparently there are two versions of the MRH-90 One is known as the "high cabin" so maybe this is the one they will use as the utility version and the other for ASW, who knows. There is also the newer version of the Seahawk which is coming on line with the USN known as the "R" model.

The Seasprites, well, time will tell but I don't think they will become operational in the role they were designed for. They appear to be a lemon..even the Navy didn't want them. Most likely they will end up as a general hack aircraft. I'd better be careful what I am saying here. :huh:

Thanks for the update Dave.

From what I've read overnight, the MRH90 is about the same size (height and length) as the ASW Seahawk which operates from the FFG destroyers and could probably operate from the FFG as is. However, the FFGs are beginning to be phased out of service and I think are being replaced by the new Anti Warfare Destroyers.

The smaller Seasprite seems to be optimised as an attack helicopter from the Anzac frigates and didn't appear to have a role from the FFGs.

So I guess that means that the FFGs and frigates would complement each other on operations.

If the Seasprite doesn't work as advertised, that leaves the Anzacs without a big punch and I doubt that a "low" cabin NH90 would be the answer as it's 3.6 metres longer than a Seasprite so my guess is that it wouldn't fit in the hangar.

So it's back to square one looking for a helicopter with good offensive capabilities for the Anzacs.

Only time will tell and I hate to be a cynic but I can see another mess developing.

Perhaps the Seasprites could find a role as some sort of fisheries and border patrol helicopter.

Another related thought:

On the Blackhawk replacement side of this arrangment, does anyone know in general terms the fatigue state and overall condition of the Blackhawk fleet?

I was just wondering whether they are likely to be sold off as the MRH90s come on line......

I haven't really heard any discussion around the fate airframes that are to be retired as part of this reduction in Helo types across the ADF.

<_<

BC

[QUOTE]Perhaps the Seasprites could find a role as some sort of fisheries and border patrol helicopter.

LOL.. yeah just like the Grumman Trackers. I don't know..surely they can put missiles on the Seahawks.

Interestingly, as stated,.......

*****Seakings retired,..Blackhawks "replaced" *******

I would say that a core Blackhawk force will still be flying in 2020 albeit in smaller numbers. Replaced in Assault role yes,..general trooping role,..no



Lets face it, 4 MRH-90s at Oakey seems too small for training.


First 6 MRH's are to Oakey for training, with second 6 per RAN out of the original Order of twelve to meet 2010 deadline for Seaking retirement,....follow-on is then 24 for "A" and "B" Squadrons, 5th Aviation, then 10 for 171Sqn SpecOps "Maybe" (As I think they and a "new" undisclosed support squadron for the 1st Aviation Regiment in Darwin will be using them for a long time yet)

Lets see how my crystal ball works its magic this time! B) With two extra Battalions,....they'll need a fourth troop lift Squadron!!


Gordy :o "Go Army"

the Blackhawks may stay on in smaller numbers doing something...

I have heard the users of the blakhawk like it for its survivability in a crash, how does the MRH90 compare???

I hear it bounces pretty good and does have a higher standard of safety, though there are no published jpegs or mjegs

All of our new MRH's are higher cabin versions.

I remember when I was "young" seeing a Pre-production UH-60A during sinkrate tests hitting the terra firma at an extreme rate of sink.

I said S*&^ , if they were in a Iroquoi, the tail boom would have ended up underneath her and the engine and rotar head in the flatten main cabin. :o

One thing I can't understand,......why not a five blade main rotar????? Given the size and engines.

Will they have the same model engines as the ARH? RTM332's???

Gordy <_<

Does anybody know when we are going to retire our aging Blackhawk fleet? Also did we drop the ball over the years and not upgrade key parts of them including avionics, radar, engines etc making them undeployable to places like Iraq and Afghanistan

Or do you think they will always be kept in service being used rather than troop transport and more as search and rescue, medical evacuation, disaster relief and external carriage of heavy equipment including artillery howitzers and light vehicles?

However it still seems that Tactical Assault Group East is still using them as they fly training missions through the buildings of Sydney's CBD occasionally...

Cheers.

DISCLAIMER: I did try and search Google about this with no luck...

Some news footage.


http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go...&txt=ABC%20News

Also some info for your interest from another very good website.

http://ontheroger.proboards.com/thread/540...bulldust?page=4

This post has been edited by Dave Masterson on Aug 20 2014, 05:35 PM

Thanks Dave for that link.

Just like I suspected they will be moved to Sydney where they can be utilized by the Tactical Assault Group East conducting counter terrorism missions, fast roping, MEDEVAC, Search and Rescue etc.

It would be so cool piloting or sitting in the Blackhawk legs hanging out the sides flying in between the tall skyscrapers in the Sydney CBD!

Regards.

Hope we end with say 24 MH-60M for the boys to play with at Holsworthy as the MRH is a dud for spec ops - might even be some commonality in training with team Navy sharing simulators on the Romeo (flight deck is practically same for both Romeo and Mike models), Holsworthy is not too far as the crow as flies from Albatross either and army will move in for HATS anyway... :ph34r:

Wishful thinking that Army will get UH/MH-60M to supplement MRH 90.
MRH 90 was obtained to replace S-70A, and that is it.

Army is finding the financial burden of seriously playing in the aviation battlespace is just too much.
The higher-ups consider them just as glorified trucks, so why do they chew up so much of the Army budget.
In fact, ever since the Army snookered the RAAF on operating battlefield helicopters, they have always been considered as trucks.

And it is sad that Army Avn never properly supported the diggers in Iraq and Afghanistan - 2 CH-47s is no way considered proper support.

This post has been edited by batman on Aug 23 2014, 02:34 PM

That's is why I asked: Did we drop the ball over the years and not upgrade key parts of them including avionics, radar, engines etc making them undeployable to places like Iraq and Afghanistan

It's embarrassing as a country as rich as ours that we don't have a modern or upgraded Utility Helicopter like the UH-60 Blackhawk to insert and extract our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan or as having an organic Combat Search and Rescue chopper with the best battlefield medics in the country on board.

SAS Trooper knocks on US Army 160th SOAR pilot bedroom door: "If you're free this arvo any chance of getting lift in your Blackhawk to a village with Taliban there?

!60th pilot: Yeah alright I'll give you a call when I'm free.

SAS Trooper: Thanks mate I owe you one :angry:

Concept for a Special Forces version of the NH-90...on show at the French Special Forces Salon SOFIN21 - we will be watching developments, however, if we end up converting some of our 47 airframes it will take away from the common pool use system we have now, provided the current mess is sorted with air worthiness.

SOFIN21

This post has been edited by Grumpy Cobra on Jul 1 2021, 12:44 PM

Any version of the NH90 is a heap of junk. Fools gold I would say.

The concept of one type covering many roles including a maritime environment is totally flawed and this has been proven.

The quicker they bin them [like the Tiger ARH] the better off the Army and Navy [and Australia] will be...