Sabre Ground Ejection, A Question from a Visitor

[darren.crick]

I have recieved the following question from Robert John Blyth

"In late 60 or early 61, all Sabres had been grounded to have an Ejection Modification installed (there had been a spate of ejection accidents when tall pilots were struck by the canopy bow, and a mod had been developed, to allow pilots to eject through the canopy, broken by pressurisation after a bolt was fired through it. Armourer FSgt A. Schipp was installing the modification and was kneeling on the seat when the seat fired. He was killed, I and others were witness."

Can anyone Identify the aircraft and date?

I was also the Airframe fitter who sent off the tall Sgt Ross Holding on his last flight.

[Dean]

I think I have heard about this story which may have been getting around a couple of years ago.

There were actually 3 deaths attributed to canopy bow strikes and I do know they altered the procedures to be taken for ejections in that the Pilots were to lean forward but was not aware of any mods to the seat itself.

[darren.crick]

G'day Dean,

See below on our history of A94-924, I am aware of a discussion some time ago when Martin Edwards put together this portion of their history;

"The pilot, FLTLT R Allen, attempted to eject after a engine failure shortly after an overshoot. He became incapacitated after jettisoning the canopy, being struck on the head, and crashed onto Stockton Beach at Newcastle, NSW. (There were three instances of pilot fatalities caused by unsuccesful ejection. These involved Sabres A94-924, 926 and 937. In each case the pilot was struck on the head by the canopy. A modification was devised were the canopy was shattered by a spring loaded bolt. This modification was carried out to all Sabres by ground crew, including at Butterworth by kits supplied from Australia. The modification was proved successful with the safe ejections on 27/07/60 from A94-961 and -976 after they collided)."

Perhaps the altered procedures were implemented prior to this hardware mod.

if you hear anything about the ground ejection we would appreciate hearing about it.

Cheers,

Darren

[Rod Farquhar]

Prior to the introduction of the canopy breaker bolt( powered by a shortened Hispano 20mm cannon return spring) the first operation of either seat ejection handle fired the canopy jettison gun, the seat firing handle was then exposed allowing the seat to be fired. The problem was the canopy dipping at the front due to air pressure as it travelled back. Part of the mod to the seat was the removal of the canopy jettison funtion, from memory it was put on the panel compelling the pilot to lean forward and down to operate it.
Rod.

[Luig]

Rod,
Cripes. What did this do to the pilot's seat / back position? Could you briefly outline the Sabre ejection procedure / sequence please. I'm intrigued - thanks.
Phil.

[Rod Farquhar]

Phil, 40 years ago I was servicing all of the Sabre seats at 78 Wing Butterworth. My memory might be a bit hazy but basically this is it.
As I said before, pre mod the seat firng handles were two part, the first pull trigered an initiator (pyrotechnic gas supply) this applied gas pressure to the canopy jettison gun on the canopy deck behind the seat, the gas pressure then fired a cartridge in the gun which unlocked the canopy and propelled it back. This first handle pull exposed a second trigger which when operated comenced the ejection sequence, this sequence is pretty much the same as follows.
After the mod the double triggers were replaced by a single unit (either side would operate). Pull the handle and the canopy breaker bolt was fired through the canopy, via cable and sear, it also fired another initiator which applied gas pressure to the seat firing gun, this pressure fired the seat gun and unlocked the seat from it's anchorage. As the seat rose up any remaining canopy was removed by the reinforcements on the top of the seat, after a couple of inches of upward travel yet another initiator was fired, this one had a slight time delay built in to allow the seat to clear the aircraft. When it fired it applied gas pressure to, and fired the "Tally Rotary Actuator" and also unlocked the pilots seat harness.The rotary actuator was just a gas operated drum winch, it reeled in a strap that went down behind and under the pilot and was attached to the front inside of the seat, pull it tight and the pilot is tipped out of the seat. On the parachute D ring assembly was a device known as the "Carrot" this clipped into a recess on the seat harness buckle and automatically pulled the ripcord to deploy the chute when the pilot and seat parted company. to allow a quick decent from a high altitude ejection the carrot was disconnected from the buckle as the aicraft passed through 10,000 feet, thus reverting to manual ripcord operation.
Hope this is not too confusing.
Rod. :blink:

[Luig]

Rod, Thanks. Not having myself seen inside the cockpit of a Sabre my question would be: Is the seat operated by handles on the side of the seat? You mention 'either side' after modification was made. I guess I could find an example of the Sabre seat somewhere on the web. Was the Sabre seat Martin-Baker?

Here is a start point:
http://www.36thfbs.com/f-86f_sabre_ejection_seat.htm

Photo of seat handles here:
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/401-500/walk483_RAAF-Sabre_Williamson/12.jpg
&
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/401-500/walk483_RAAF-Sabre_Williamson/13.jpg
&
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/401-500/walk483_RAAF-Sabre_Williamson/14.jpg
&
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/401-500/walk483_RAAF-Sabre_Williamson/15.jpg

Good site here: http://www.ejectionsite.com/f86seat.htm
Phil.

This post has been edited by Luig on Jul 25 2007, 08:39 PM

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[Rod Farquhar]

Phil the illustration you have is an early unmodified seat. They were built by North American Aviation, same as the Sabre. By any stretch of the imagination they were pretty primitive compared to Martin Baker types, however once the canopy problem was resolved they seem to have worked well enough.
I went down to Classic Jets and took a few pics for your and anyone elses interest.

This is a general view of a seat on display, not all there but OK.

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[Rod Farquhar]

Side view of seat

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[Rod Farquhar]

Seat firing handles, post modification

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[Rod Farquhar]

Top of seat, the blue (wrong colour) object is the initiator that fires the Talley Rotary Actuator, it is triggered as the seat starts to rise up.

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[Rod Farquhar]

Top of seat installed ( A94-974 )

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[Rod Farquhar]

Another look at the seat top

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[Rod Farquhar]

General layout of the canopy

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[Rod Farquhar]

Canopy jettison gun. This is the front part of the gun, the rear is hidden. The gun is a telescoping piston and cylinder powered by a cartridge, when fired it pushes against the canopy at the rear end, then because the canopy is still locked to the opening mechanism it is forced forward and pushes on a plunger in the bit at the left hand end. This unlocks the canopy and this allows it to be pushed off.

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[Rod Farquhar]

Ejection instructions on the gun sight.

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[Rod Farquhar]

Right hand view of cockpit

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[Rod Farquhar]

Upper view of panel.

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[Rod Farquhar]

Left hand view including throttle.

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[Rod Farquhar]

Weapons selection panel. The canopy jettison handle is at the extreme bottom left of this panel.
Enjoy,
Rod. :D

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[Luig]

Rod, Thank you very much. What a great set of pics and thanks for explanation of things. Glad the seat worked OK once a few problems solved.
Phil.

This post has been edited by Luig on Jul 27 2007, 03:49 PM

[gordon]

<!--QuoteBegin-Rod Farquhar+Jul 24 2007, 02:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rod Farquhar @ Jul 24 2007, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Phil, 40 years ago I was servicing all of the Sabre seats at 78 Wing Butterworth. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hi Rod,

78 Wing at Butterworth 1967. Do u remember what sqns constituted 78 Wing at the time? Was 79 Sqn one of them? I presume not all were at Butterworth.


Also is anyone able to supply details of Sgt Ross Holding's last flight?

Thanks

Gordon

[Rod Farquhar]

Phil, no problems.
Gordy, 78 Wing consisted of 3Sqn, 77 Sqn and 478 Maintenance Sqn. The ground crew rotated around these units as required and also did 2 month attachments to 79 Sqn based at Ubon. 79 Sqn was not technically part of 78 Wing even though air crew, ground crew and aircraft were drawn from it, this was mainly a political requirement due to Malaysia not wanting to contribute to SEATO. In 1967 3Sqn returned to Australia to re-equip with Mirages and was replaced by 75 Sqn. When I returned to Butterworth in 1971 the Squadrons (3 and 75) had become more self-contained, 478 Sqn only did major aircraft servicings, everything else was done at sqn level.
Rod.

[gordon]

Thanks for that Rod.

Only thing is that I'm Gordon C (Gordon the Goodlooking) ;) while Gordy is Gordon B (aka Gordon the Geek) . :P

Terribly confusing really.

Gordon

[gordon]

Actually Rod if I may try a long shot.

You said u were back in Butterworth in 1971. While there that year or the next did u happen to hear the name Barry Einam? He was ground crew and was there several years. His old man served with 9 Sqn in Vietnam in 1968 or 1969.

Thanks.

[Rod Farquhar]

Gordon, yes sorry about the confusion, I thought after I had posted the reply whoops! that was Gordon not Gordy.
I'm afraid I do not recognise the name, I was with 3 Sqn 1971-74 and as I said before the squadrons were more self contained by that time, if he was with another unit and not a Gunnie it would not be uncommon not to know a lot of people there.
Rod.

[gordon]

Thanks for that Rod.

[darren.crick]

one of you really should change you name... :D