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ADF Serials Message Board -> ADF & NZDF - Aircraft and Air Arms -> RAAF Aircraft - Royal Australian Air Force

Aircraft Used By 79 Sqn In Ww2

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Brenden S	Posted: Sep 2 2021, 12:42 PM
Lockheed Hercules (A97) Group: Members Posts: 350 Member No.: 414 Joined: 6-June 07	Hi fellow ADF members. Has anyone done the research and has made a list of all the aircraft 79SQN had in WW2 at all with the codes too?

Brenden S	Posted: Sep 2 2021, 03:24 PM
Lockheed Hercules (A97) Group: Members Posts: 350 Member No.: 414 Joined: 6-June 07	Thanks Shep

Warhawk	Posted: Sep 21 2021, 04:57 PM
ADF Serials Research Co-ord Group: ADF Serials Admin Posts: 1,987 Member No.: 82 Joined: 9-March 06	H Brenden, put as many as I could find todate per the 2A58 Listing But since you haven't the xls file Not all found,..but who has a bigger list? LOL Here A58-434 LF.VIII UP- A58-436 LF.VIII UP- A58-511 LF.VIII UP- A58-654 HF.VIII UP- A58-689 HF.VIII UP- A58-690 HF.VIII UP- A58-732 HF.VIII UP- A58-231 Mk.Vc UP-? A58-104 Mk.Vc UP-A A58-522 LF.VIII UP-A "HAL FAR", later UP-K A58-252 Mk.Vc UP-A "JenIII" A58-168 Mk.Vc UP-B A58-200 Mk.Vc UP-C A58-531 LF.VIII UP-C A58-185 Mk.Vc UP-D A58-505 LF.VIII UP-D, UP-S A58-140 Mk.Vc UP-E A58-508 LF.VIII UP-E A58-142 Mk.Vc UP-E Underscored, later UP-O4 A58-138 Mk.Vc UP-F A58-638 HF.VIII UP-F A58-517 LF.VIII UP-F HAVA-GO-JO A58-507 LF.VIII UP-G A58-212 Mk.Vc UP-G "Judith" A58-178 Mk.Vc UP-G "Tasmania with caped devil" motif A58-141 Mk.Vc UP-H A58-179 Mk.Vc UP-H A58-256 Mk.Vc UP-H A58-501 LF.VIII UP-H A58-509 LF.VIII UP-I, UP-T A58-4 Mk.Vc UP-J A58-495 LF.VIII UP-J A58-135 Mk.Vc UP-K A58-181 Mk.Vc UP-K A58-643 HF.VIII UP-K, UP-A, A58-165 Mk.Vc UP-L "Boxing Kangaroo Motif" A58-489 LF.VIII UP-L/Later UP-E A58-28 Mk.Vc UP-M A58-539 LF.VIII "UP-M " A58-167 Mk.Vc UP-N A58-543 LF.VIII UP-N/later "UP-?" A58-144 Mk.Vc UP-O A58-146 Mk.Vc UP-O A58-149 Mk.Vc UP-O A58-547 LF.VIII UP-O A58-681 HF.VIII UP-O A58-176 Mk.Vc UP-P A58-247 Mk.Vc UP-P A58-163 F.VB UP-Q/SH-L A58-166 Mk.Vc UP-R A58-544 LF.VIII UP-R A58-526 LF.VIII UP-R "AVAGROG" UP-L A58-180 Mk.Vc UP-S "Bull with Jap Flag" motif A58-487 LF.VIII UP-S "Dig" A58-137 Mk.Vc UP-T/SH-W A58-506 LF.VIII UP-U A58-173 Mk.Vc UP-U "Sweet FA" "E" A58-492 LF.VIII UP-U/UP-B "Mac III" A58-206 Mk.Vc UP-V A58-245 Mk.Vc UP-V A58-645 HF.VIII UP-V A58-145 Mk.Vc UP-V "Nipponese" and girl motif A58-640 HF.VIII UP-W A58-182 Mk.Vc UP-W ; "182" A58-184 Mk.Vc UP-W iii "Nipps Emergency Sea-trip" A58-177 Mk.Vc UP-W, UP-K A58-213 Mk.Vc UP-X A58-513 LF.VIII UP-X :"AVB The 1st" A58-169 Mk.Vc UP-X over and underscored A58-143 Mk.Vc UP-Y Pegasus motif "Dawn" A58-512 LF.VIII UP-Y/Later UP-Y A58-651 HF.VIII UP-Z A58-226 Mk.Vc UP-Z underscored A58-175 Mk.Vc UP-Z, UP-E

Warhawk	Posted: Sep 21 2021, 05:02 PM
ADF Serials Research Co-ord Group: ADF Serials Admin Posts: 1,987 Member No.: 82 Joined: 9-March 06	One of the best detailed Sqns in the RAAF,..well in 1943 Example Page 116 Attached Image

ozhawk40	Posted: Sep 21 2021, 10:07 PM
Hawker Sea Fury (RAN) Group: Members Posts: 51 Member No.: 585 Joined: 11-October 07	A58-216 UP-M This post has been edited by ozhawk40 on Sep 21 2021, 10:11 PM Attached Image

ozhawk40

Posted: Sep 22 2021, 10:18 PM

Hawker Sea Fury (RAN)

Group: Members
Posts: 51
Member No.: 585
Joined: 11-October 07

Shep said:

QUOTE

"Nice picture of A58-216. I don't want to sound like a smart arse, but how do you know it was "M"? With the wing and the cockpit tarp in the way, that portion of the individual letter that is visible could be just about any letter without a loop or horizontal stroke at the top. Is there an alternative source for the allocated letter?"

A close up of photo indicates the inward slant on both sides of the letter, meaning it could only be 'M'.

The adf-serials entry is as follows:-

A58-216 F.VC LZ848 Arrived in Australia on SS Brisbane Star 30/06/43.Rec 1AP ex UK 08/07/43. Rec 1AD ex 1AP 19/07/43. Rec 14ARD RP ex 1AD 27/07/43. Rec 54Sqn RAF ex 14ARD RP 01/08/43. Coded DL-U as LZ848. Accident 09/08/43 when engine cut out on take-off from Strauss Strip causing the aircraft to be forced landed back on strip. Pilot; F/Lt Thompson Serv#65563 RAF not injured. Rec 7RSU ex 54Sqn RAF 02/09/43. Rec 14ARD RP ex 7RSU 15/02/44. Rec 15ARD RP ex 14ARD RP 11/03/44. Rec 15ARD ex 15ARD RP 12/03/44. Rec 15ARD RP ex 15ARD 10/05/44. Rec 79Sqn RAAF ex 15ARD RP 20/05/44. Coded UP-J. Rec 12RSU ex 79Sqn RAAF 07/12/44. Allotted 6AD ex 12RSU 25/09/45. Canc. Surveyed 12RSU per File#9/18/240 Min#2 01/11/45. AMSE approval to convert on site 12RSUD per File #9/16/2995 and converted to components 18/12/45. Pics held 54Sqn RAF and 79Sqn RAAF.

A58-216 was received by the squadron a few weeks after the collision of A58-4 UP-J and A58-28 UP-M.

This post has been edited by ozhawk40 on Sep 22 2021, 10:29 PM

Attached Image

Brenden S	Posted: Sep 22 2021, 10:27 PM
Lockheed Hercules (A97) Group: Members Posts: 350 Member No.: 414 Joined: 6-June 07	You two gents are fine legends, thanks for your help.

PaulG	Posted: Sep 30 2021, 11:00 AM
Maurice Farman MF.11 Shorthorn (CFS) Group: Members Posts: 9 Member No.: 47,075 Joined: 21-February 18	This is great thanks so much for sharing. Love reading through the reports…. things like "Fatigue Experience and Cause - Ring trouble. Seats too hard" and the classic about the fire coming from the Enemy possibly being annoyed at Victory rolls on the deck"….. This Mk VIII with the 80 Wing Ace of Spades on the Rudder still an anonymous A58 number ? chrs Paul G Attached Image

batman	Posted: Sep 30 2021, 03:21 PM
Lockheed Hercules (A97) Group: Members Posts: 380 Member No.: 3,524 Joined: 7-April 10	Sorry, only have the two Mk.Vc serials for UP-P posted already by Warhawk: UP-P JG807/A58-176; MH306/A58-247 Will post if I do find a Mk.VIII UP-P.

PaulG	Posted: Oct 1 2021, 11:01 AM
Maurice Farman MF.11 Shorthorn (CFS) Group: Members Posts: 9 Member No.: 47,075 Joined: 21-February 18	Thanks Shep and Warhawk. It has a few real consistent points between the two photo's. The codes and their shape, the peeling paint on the fin flash and also the fuselage roundel which looks to be of distinctly odd proportions (kinda 5:3-ish). Definitely looks like a match between the two images. I was discussing with Peter Malone and he put forward two other suggestions both in the 4— and 5— series that were on the strength of 79 Sqn but didn't carry out operations (ie no UP-P Mk VIII's in the ORB). A58-527 was received by No. 2 AD, held at 9 RSU Replacement Pool until September 1945, and issued directly to No. 79 Sqn seeing no operational service before this. The shot below is from Peter's collection and is during the ferry north to 79 Sqn. At this stage it doesn't carry the No. 80 Wing emblem, the fuselage roundel looks to be 5:2 and the spinner is a light colour so some inconsistencies here. A58-490 was received by No. 3AD and issued to No. 14 ARD/RP in October 1944, issued to 452 Sqn in December 1944. Coded QY-Z. May 1945 it went to No 9 RSU and then to No 79 Sqn in mid September 1945. This history is also consistent with the rudder of a No. 79 Sqn A/C carrying a No. 80 Wing emblem. No doubt it looks like -436 is also a very real high contender as well we may be able to by process of elimination so the "real UP-P can stand up" ! Thoughts ? Cheers Paul Attached Image

Brenden S	Posted: Oct 4 2021, 01:18 PM
Lockheed Hercules (A97) Group: Members Posts: 350 Member No.: 414 Joined: 6-June 07	Wow guys, fantastic bit of history there. Thanks for sharing and I am glad I asked the question.

PaulG

Posted: Oct 5 2021, 12:52 PM

Maurice Farman MF.11 Shorthorn (CFS)

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Posts: 9
Member No.: 47,075
Joined: 21-February 18

QUOTE (Shep @ Oct 3 2021, 11:10 AM)

In addition to my previous post ..

Regarding the comment "... that were on the strength of 79 Sqn but didn't carry out operations (ie no UP-P Mk VIII's in the ORB)." - There weren't ANY Spitfire Mk.VIIIs identified by code letters in 79SQN's ORB, anyway. So the absence, specifically, of a "UP-P" is moot.

Don't forget, that the only documentary identifications (aside from whatever may be held in private collections) for 79SQN Mk.VIIIs are for a 5 week period from mid-July 1945 to mid-August 1945. Any code letter to serial number associations before mid-July 1945 or after mid-August 1945 will have to come from some alternative source.

There is a massive gap in code letter / serial number identifiable 79SQN Spitfires (either Mk.Vc or Mk.VIII) from the end of February, 1944, to mid-July, 1945. The two images (posted earlier) of a 79SQN Mk.VIII "UP-P" are therefore AT LEAST 12 months into the "null-period". Therefore, there was plenty of opportunity for 79SQN to have Mk.VIIIs coded "UP-P" but not be recorded in known surviving official documents.

That A58-490 and -527 were delivered to 79SQN after the end of hostilities, unfortunately, can't suggest to us a possible code letter allocation.

The photograph attached by Paul (above) of an unmarked Mk.VIII would be typical for an aircraft being ferried from an aircraft depot to a squadron. The application of any sort of unit markings was the responsibility of the receiving unit, not issuing or intermediate stays with Aircraft Depots, Aircraft Repair Depots, Repair and Salvage Units or Storage facilities.

The assumption seems to be that the 80WG "Ace of Spades" rudder marking was a later war (meaning here mid-late 1945) marking.

It started to appear on Spitfire Mk.VIII aircraft in Australia before 452SQN and 457SQN started to deploy to MOROTAI with 80WG - That is, in late 1944. In fact, that marking seems far more common on first half of 1945 pictures (especially early 1945) than in pictures from the second half of the year. But, yes, there are certainly some examples of post-war images with the rudder marking, but most aircraft seem to have either lost it by then or never had it.

Up to the end of March, 1945, 13 individual aircraft were mentioned by serial number in 79SQN's A50 and or A51 and according to the text, 12 had been delivered being 2 of the 5 flown from DARWIN and the 10 flown from OAKEY.

The two from DARWIN were A58-434 and A58-436 (E/E.88 – both 1AD to 14ARD RP (Gorrie) then 79SQN (Det, Sattler) on 27JAN45).

Since the 80WG rudder marking actually originated in Australia before deployment to MOROTAI and, as far as I know at the moment (and I'd like to point out that single seat types aren't my thing), those two aircraft (A58-434 and -436) were the only two of 79SQN's early examples to be delivered to them via that route, then I think that it becomes quite plausible for both of those two machines to have been marked with the 80WG rudder marking. No, it isn't proof, but it is plausible.

I can't explain why the rudder marking seemed rare on 79WG Mk.VIIIs. But its presence on the (perhaps) only two that came via Darwin might very explain why those two had it whilst others that arrived via a different route didn't.

Hope this helps !

Edit: Added "That is - in late 1944" with regard to 80WG marking.

Noted Shep - thanks for the builds - looking like -436 is firming.

cheers P

Brenden S

Posted: Oct 16 2021, 07:49 AM

Lockheed Hercules (A97)

Group: Members
Posts: 350
Member No.: 414
Joined: 6-June 07

QUOTE (Shep @ Oct 5 2021, 08:31 AM)

For my part, at least Brenden, no worries.

It is precisely the sort of question/discussion topic that belongs here on the forum and NOT on farcebook.

If these things are posted here, they can be seen in future. People can look for and find them and they don't have to have special membership to a platform that not everybody wants to be a part of.

100% agree with you about posting on here and not on stalkbook.

Warhawk	Posted: Oct 17 2021, 02:22 PM
ADF Serials Research Co-ord Group: ADF Serials Admin Posts: 1,987 Member No.: 82 Joined: 9-March 06	Nice capture of two rare coded 79Sqn Aircraft Mk Vcs A58-169 UP Over and underscored X with given date, is thought as A58-247 UP-P #2 (Pic date of 11/01/44 after 05/01/44 undercarriage collapsed accident date for A58-176 UP-P#1). Though its sitting in the repair tarmac so it could be A58-176 in hindsight Attached Image

ozhawk40

Posted: Oct 18 2021, 10:01 PM

Hawker Sea Fury (RAN)

Group: Members
Posts: 51
Member No.: 585
Joined: 11-October 07

QUOTE

Mk Vcs A58-169 UP Over and underscored X with given date, is thought as A58-247 UP-P #2 (Pic date of 11/01/44 after 05/01/44 undercarriage collapsed accident date for A58-176 UP-P#1).
Though its sitting in the repair tarmac so it could be A58-176 in hindsight

Definitely A58-176 Warhawk. You can make out the serial on the fuselage as JG807.

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