Usn Carrier Train - Some Raaf Super Hornet Pilots, and RAAF Honet Serial/Profile

[Luig]

Carrier training for our pilots
Mark Dodd | August 21, 2007.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22279837-31477,00.html

AUSTRALIAN fighter pilots will be taught to land on aircraft carriers for the first time in 25 years.

A select handful of Royal Australian Air Force instructors will be chosen for lessons on how to land on US aircraft carriers flying the new F/A-18F Super Hornet fighter.

The plan, which could eventually lead to participation in US carrier-based operations, marks the first time Australian pilots have flown off aircraft carriers since the retirement of the navy's flagship carrier HMAS Melbourne in 1982.

The carrier training underscores the rapidly evolving military partnership between the US and Australian military.

Senior US navy sources said the relationship was likely to involve an increasing convergence in training and tactics between the RAAF's fast jets and their US equivalent.

RAAF Flight Lieutenant John Haly will become the first Australian air force pilot to become carrier-qualified when he attempts his toughest flying skills test later this year.

Asked to clarify RAAF Super Hornet training, Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said yesterday: "There is no plan for RAAF pilots to undertake training in aircraft carrier landings."

The official government line contradicts briefings provided to The Australian by senior US military officials at Lemoore Naval Air Station in California that other RAAF "Top Gun" instructor pilots are expected to follow Flight Lieutenant Haly and be provided with carrier training.

Full-scale Super Hornet training for RAAF air crew starts in the US in 2009.

"We've got him (Flight Lieutenant Haly) driving on the right side of the road so we figure he's trainable," said Lemoore-based Commander Art "Kato" Delacruz, executive officer of Strike Fighter Squadron VFA-122.

The RAAF is buying 24 F/A-18F Block-2 Super Hornets for $6 billion to maintain its air combat capability between the phasing out of the ageing F-111 fleet in 2010 and the introduction of the delayed fifth-generation F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in 2013.

Despite criticism of the deal in Australia, US Navy aviators say the the Block-2 Super Hornet is the world's most capable multi-role combat aircraft.

Australia is acquiring a virtually identical aircraft to the one currently operated by the US Navy, with the first four aircraft scheduled for delivery in early 2010 and final delivery in late 2011.

Boeing, the manufacturer of the Super Hornet, says the Australian version will be equipped with enough technology for the aircraft to remain a formidable asset for the next 20 years.

During a briefing at the weekend, Flight Lieutenant Haly said it took only five hours' flying time for an F/A-18C pilot trained on a "Classic Hornet" to become familiar with the new Super Hornet. Acquiring the tactical skills to take advantage of the jet's massive capabilities would take considerably longer, he said.

[mark]

Will these Carrier qualified RAAF pilots be able to join the Tailhook Association!?
Regards Mark

[Luig]

Tailhook Association Membership Information
Regular Membership
Regular Membership is open to anyone who has made an arrested carrier landing.

Associate Membership
Associate Membership is open to anyone who has the desire to support U.S. Naval Carrier Aviation and the goals of The Tailhook Association. Associate Members have all privileges of Regular Members with the exception of voting rights.

Life Membership
The cost is based on the applicant's age and is available for both Regular and Associate Members.
______________________________________________

Tailhook Association Vision, Purpose and ObjectivesIt is the vision of the Tailhook Association to be internationally recognized as the premierorganization for support of carrier and other sea-based aviation.The purposes of the Association as set forth in the organization bylaws are:“… to foster, encourage, develop, study, and support the aircraft carrier, sea-basedaircraft, both fixed and rotary wing, and aircrews of the United States of America; and toeducate and inform the public in the appropriate role of the aircraft carrier and carrieraviation in the nation’s defense system.”The objectives of the Tailhook Association in implementation of the stated purposes are:•To uphold a commitment to the highest standards of professional and personal conduct•To honor the service and sacrifices of all those who are or have been a part of carrier-based aviation•To sponsor and participate in professional gatherings designed to constructively enhancepublic recognition of the importance of carrier and other sea-based aviation•To provide an interactive forum for fleet aviator thought and opinion in carrier aviationmatters, particularly that of the junior aviator•To contribute to the enhancement of professionalism, camaraderie and morale amongcarrier and other sea-based aviators•To honor and give special recognition to those who have made exceptional contributionsto the advancement of carrier-based Naval Aviation•To contribute to improved communication among civilian and military communitiesregarding carrier aviation matters•To develop an ever-widening membership base.
________________________________________

GO FOR IT. :-) :D http://www.tailhook.net/

This post has been edited by Luig on Aug 21 2007, 01:54 PM

Attached Image

[darren.crick]

So do we assume there is something to this line of training?

[Luig]

Darren,
I don't claim to know anything other than what we read in that press report. As suggested on another forum:
http://rnzaf.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=Aussie&action=display&thread=1187651157

RAAF exchange pilots to the USN have done CarQual but no cruises on USN carriers. Being CarQualed puts the RAAF pilot on equal footing with USN pilots for the duration of exchange. I don't think the Super Hornet RHINO qual goes beyond that scenario. I for one would not mind if the RAAF get some Vertol JSFs for the RAN LHDs and that they operate them. Cool.
Phil.

[darren.crick]

There will be a reason, thats for sure. Its just a matter of figuring it out or seeing the end result when it happens. Its not a bad thing really...

[Luig]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22288580-31477,00.html

ADF may be first to buy 'tilt' chopper
Mark Dodd | August 22, 2007

AUSTRALIAN special forces could be the first international customers for the
revolutionary tilt rotor Osprey - a US-designed half-helicopter and
half-plane.

In its first operational deployment, 10 of the twin-engined V-22 Osprey will
be sent to Iraq as troop and cargo carriers serving the US Marine Corps.

Manufacturer Boeing claims a clean operational report card is likely to be
followed by US government export approval and the Australian Defence Force
is being eyed as a potential customer.

The ADF today confirmed it is looking at buying more Chinook twin-rotor
helicopters following their successful deployment in Afghanistan.

Although no decision has been made on aircraft type or numbers, the army is
understood to be keen on buying the latest CH-47F model.

The current fleet of six ageing CH-47Ds is expected to be upgraded to CH-47F
standard.

While an Osprey purchase is not included in the defence capability plan, The
Australian understands initial approaches are being made to gauge interest
in the aircraft for use by Australian special forces.

"Now the V-22 has been cleared for operations in Iraq, Boeing is now turning
to the international market (for potential customers)," Boeing spokesman
Paul Lewis told The Australian during a visit to the company's high-security
Osprey assembly line in Philadelphia.

Designed to carry 24-fully equipped soldiers, the world's first production
tiltrotor aircraft utilises the latest in carbon fibre technology, and
compared to helicopters, flies faster, quieter and at a higher altitude,
advantages its makers say minimises the likelihood of it being shot out of
the sky.

A spokesman for Defence Minister Dr Brendan Nelson yesterday confirmed US
aircraft carrier training is on offer for RAAF fast jet pilots transitioning
from F/A-18C Classic Hornets to the new F/A-18F Super Hornet, 24 of which
are on order for a cost of $6 billion.

As reported in The Australian, RAAF Super Hornet fliers will be taught to
land on aircraft carriers for the first time in 25 years.

The training underscores the rapidly evolving partnership between the US and
Australian military and could eventually lead to participation in US carrier
based operations."

(not my quote:) ""Carrier training confirmed in this, from today's The Australian. Osprey tiltrotors are also in early R&D phase for shipborne AEW for the Spanish
Navy's new carrier class, of which the RAN is getting two, of course!"

Phil.

This post has been edited by Luig on Aug 23 2007, 04:02 PM

[herkman]

Now I wonder

Could the super Hornet operate off the new mini carriers we are buying.

Perhaps they could be handed over to the navy and give the FAA a shot in the arm.

Seeing defense ponder this site, maybe another one of our suggestions could be taken up.

Only have to put the NAVY stickers on them when the RAAF has run them in

Stranger things could happen.

Col

[Luig]

Col,
I think the RAAF will have to buy some Vertol JSF B models (Marine and perhaps RN FAA version) to operate from LHDs. Changing the stickers would be no problem. :-)
Phil.

[darren.crick]

that article worries me...

"As reported in The Australian, RAAF Super Hornet fliers will be taught to
land on aircraft carriers for the first time in 25 years."

implies the super hornet hs been around for more than 25 years and our RAAF pilots were trained to land them on carriers but that hasnt happened in the last 25 years...

or did I read it wrong... but I do know what they mean.

just out of curiosity, did any RAAF pilots get carrier training for the 'classic' (Old) hornets? or did they mean the Australian Military pilots havent done it in 25 years.

[Luig]

Dean,
Newspaper reporters have no history knowledge. They report today what they know today - if you are lucky. They rehash press releases without really checking their assumptions. [I look forward to the reporterr explaining why he wrote the article the way he did some day.] The reporter (or whoever wrote the article) is fudging the facts by saying that RAAF pilots "could" operate from USN carriers and that this is the first time "Australian" (notice) pilots have landed on a carrier since 1982.

This claim is absolutely incorrect. Both an A4G pilot (flying a Corsair II) and a Tracker pilot (flying an S3 Viking) are the candidates for doing the last arrest and catapult in the RAN FAA - they can decide amongst themselves. For the record here is the last A4G pilot arrest and cat:

"Lcdr Neville French RAN QFI LSO (on USN exchange) was the last deck landing A-4G pilot in the RAN on USS Constellation on 01 Dec 1984 in an A7E."

I don't believe that an RAAF pilot has landed a Hornet on a USN carrier but I have been told that some ARDU & CFS pilots, when investigating the Goshawk, have done so but with an instructor pilot in the rear seat. This would help minimise training time and also probably alleviate any reparations that might need to be paid on a 'government to government basis' if an RAAF pilot crashed in the US. Usually exchange pilots are indemnified for flying different aircraft; but perhaps not others in a foreign country.

Because the RAAF Hornets were "de-carrierified" (my word) that is unable to land or be catapulted from a carrier there was never much point at all getting RAAF pilots carrier qualified. Probably the USN would not take them unless they were desperate (sorry Hornet pilots). :-) But I hope you see my point. USN aviation is unique with a few minor exceptions. The USN needs a cadre of carrier pilots that they have trained through a long process. USN pilots become carrier qualified early in their careers and then requalify in various training aircraft as they proceed up to their operational aircraft. An RAAF pilot would not have that background.

Just to be clear. Suitably trained an RAAF pilot would be welcome in the USN but that training period for carrier operations would not be practical on a "just in case" basis.

You can see there are already a few holes in the reporter's story. However I cannot provide you with RAAF details - just scuttlebutt. :-) The RAN factoid is true however.
Phil. (there is more about this at:)
http://rnzaf.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=Aussie&action=display&thread=1187651157

This post has been edited by Luig on Aug 24 2007, 02:59 PM

[Dean]

I recall some years ago when another Carrier visited Sydney that there WAS one Australian who was carquall'ed. He had either joined the US Navy or had transferred over from the ADF.

[Luig]

Dean,
Can you remember more details please? Thanks. To my knowledge (once again only by chance - I'm not trying to be a naval historian here, but just work on the A4G PDF) when HMS Invincible visited Sydney in late 1984 (I think - I will have to check these details) a former A4G pilot was onboard flying Harriers. Some Harriers went to NAS Nowra during the visit. Perhaps this is what you recall - or was the carrier a USN carrier?

It is difficult for a non US citizen to join the USN but not impossible unless they become a US citizen eventually. I recall a US carrier visiting that had an 'Air Boss' CAG (Commander Air Group) who was a former USN exchange A4G pilot at NAS Nowra in about 1973. That was Mike Nordeen. There was a newspaper story about him at that time, by then (in late 80s early 90s?) he was a Captain.

Anyway if you can remember more details that will help me find that pilot. Thanks.
Phil.

[mark]

Phil,for someone who is trying "not to be a naval historian" your doing a great job!
Keep going with your interesting and enjoyable posts concerning the life and times of RAN flyers...Regards Mark

PS very funny posting posting the Tailhook membership info...

This post has been edited by mark on Aug 24 2007, 01:47 PM

[Luig]

Mark,
Thanks no worries - go join the Tailhook Association. :-) Support NavAv.

I guess it is inevitable that I learn more about all the side strands of connections to the A4G but really I just want to concentrate on that & FAA aircraft of those times but there I go the list has expanded already. DRAT.
Phil.

[darren.crick]

while we are sortof discussing the hornet, I heard tonight that Boeing have a Hornet image/pic showing a serial of A44-201.... interesting to see how close this will be!

[darren.crick]

here's the profile... almost like Gordy's....


but its quoted as being from Boeing and is in Asia Pacific Aerospace Report, Issue 07.29 - 29th August 2007.

Attached Image

[SuperVark]

That is sweet. The F/A-18F is certainly a sexy looking machine!