Sea Otter, VH-AJN which one ?

[Warhawk]

:blink:

[darren.crick]

I will send this to Dave and Bob and see what they say...

[Ron Cuskelly]

Gordy

I have a print of that image with a Qantas stamp on the back. According to AustAirData VH-AJN was JN188.

Regards

Ron

[darren.crick]

Gordy/Ron,

Bob Geale just emailed me and he felt it was JN200, the hull of which is in the museum, he is going to email me the info next week.

[Luig]

Much the same as any RAAF aircraft Gordy - joyriding. :-) :D

Seriously though here is some 'bumpf' from the Nowra Museum website:

"Australia purchased three Sea Otters in the late 1940s for air-sea-rescue duties aboard the RAN's first carrier, HMAS Sydney. Helicopters however - such as the Sycamore - proved to be more effective in the plane guard and air-sea-rescue roles and by 1953 the RAN Sea Otters had been replaced by Sycamores."

http://www.museum-of-flight.org.au/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=52&Itemid=78
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http://www.navy.gov.au/units/723sqn/history.html

The Sea Otter was used by the RAN from 1948-1953 for Air-Sea rescue duties. They were primarily acquired to operate from the RAN Aircraft Carriers HMAS Sydney and HMAS Vengeance. The Navy operated two of these amphibious aircraft until helicopters began to assume the Air-Sea-Rescue (ASR) role.

This post has been edited by Luig on Aug 15 2007, 09:24 PM

[darren.crick]

Interesting as I believed we only had 2! JN200 and JN201...

[darren.crick]

Bob Geale provided this when I asked how certain he was;

"Darren,
As certain as most, But I will check out JN188 as I have my doubts that JN 188 ever came to Australia. There is no record of what happened to JN 188 in Sturtivants book . When I flew in them all carriers had them as did air stations ours was RD880 as the other series had been with drawn from service and scrapped. Where did they get the number from .
Bob"

I have provided Bob with Ron's comment above, we will see how it goes...

[Ron Cuskelly]

Gents

The Nowra nose section is, I believe, formerly VH-BQI. Again quoting the AustAirData Register it was previously JN200.

Regards
Ron

[darren.crick]

G'day Ron,

Bob emailed me confirming its definately not JN200 or 201... he is trying to confirm the JN188 info...

[Luig]

I'm no Naval Historian but I would guess that from 1952 until 1955 HMAS (HMS) Vengeance (on loan from RN) probably had a Sea Otter or two? Vengeance returned to the Old Dart at end of 1955 when HMAS Melbourne was due out soon afterwards. Vengeance had the honor to transport a bunch of RAAF 77 Sqdn Meteors from Japan to Sydney in 1954.
Phil.

Pic below shows the HMAS Sydney Sea Otter in 1949.

This post has been edited by Luig on Aug 20 2007, 12:39 AM

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[Ron Cuskelly]

Folks

Here is chapter and verse on the Sea Otters thanks to Geoff Goodall:

Australian Petroleum Co Pty Ltd Sea Otters VH-AJN & AJO were imported from England. Both were purchased in England mid 1949, shipped crated to Sydney and assembled at Rose Bay by QEA in 3.50. Both were then ferried to PNG where they were operated by QEA on behalf of APC to support oil exploration.

VH-AJN ex JN188 c/n 739100 built Cowes IoW in 45
VH-AJO ex JN242 c/n 739101 built Cowes IoW in 45

AJN CofA lapsed 3.6.53, retired by APC and stripped for parts. Hulk sold locally 6.53

AJO commenced service in PNG on 15.5.50, sank at moorings Port Moresby harbour 21.1.52 in stormy weather. Salvage was impracticable due to high seas and aircraft was abandoned on bottom of the harbour


Sea Otter VH-BQI was unrelated to the two APC aircraft:

It was ex JN200, one of three Sea Otters transferred to RAN ex RNFAA (JN200, RD914, RD917). RD917 was returned to RN, the other two sold in Australia.

JN200 was at Bankstown for civil conversion during 1954, owners Air Sea Research, Sydney made registration application to DCA 25.9.54 and it was added to Register 12.54. It flew in an all white scheme with red trim. Air Sea Research comprised three partners who intended to use the aircraft to fly fruit to Sydney from NSW coastal towns, also air sea rescue.

VH-BQI's hull was holed during test flying and it was beached at RAAF Rathmines where it was left until the CO ordered it off the base. It was then towed to a nearby farm at Awaba NSW where it was parked in the weather until 1972 when it was cut up for scrap, only days before Bill Hitchcock of the Royal Newcastle Aero Club arrived to collect the aircraft for the club's museum at West Maitland Aerodrome. In the event Bill saved the cockpit area, which sat in the back of the aero club hangar. Later to Nowra museum.

My photo shows BQI derelict on the farm Awaba in July 1967. The serial JN200 could be plainly read through the weathered paintwork on the rear fuselage sides.


[IMG]http://www.adastron.com/aviation/vault/BQI.jpg[/IMG]

Corrected a typo on 21 Aug. VH-AJO was ex JN242 (not 424 as shown originally)

This post has been edited by Ron Cuskelly on Aug 21 2007, 08:19 AM

[Luig]

Thanks for the photo. It is sad to see it in such condition. The forum has a file size limit of 250Kbs. I have taken the liberty to save the JPG and resize it slighty (actually cropped it) and the 225Kb (rather than 261Kb image) is below:

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[Luig]

How long is a piece of string? :huh:

[Ron Cuskelly]

Luig

Many thanks for reposting that image.

Everyone please note that I have just posted a correction to the previous identity for VH-AJO.

Also please note that the image of VH-BQI is the work of Geoff Goodall.

Regards

Ron

[Luig]

PAL VIDEO "The Sea Shall Not Have Them" (1954) Michael Re

"some excellent scenes of a Sea Otter picking up ditched airmen"

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PAL-VIDEO-The-Sea-Shall-Not-Have-Them-1954-Michael-Re_W0QQitemZ170133107654QQihZ007QQcategoryZ1508QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

"Name the last biplane operational on a carrier. Type, unit, approx date of retirement (I mean flying from a deck in a daily routine. Was kind of British, but no Swordfish.)

>>> The Supermarine Sea Otter (a biplane floatplane) on HMAS Sydney and HMS Triumph. Last recorded action 19 Jul 1950, rescueing a downed USN Corsair pilot. Replaced by Sycamore helicopters in mid-1951."

This post has been edited by Luig on Aug 21 2007, 11:03 PM

[exbirdy]

Here is a photo of VH-AJN being scrapped. I cant remember where i got it from.
John

This post has been edited by exbirdy on Aug 27 2007, 09:57 PM

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[exbirdy]

VH-BQI

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[exbirdy]

Here is the reason for my interest in the Sea Otter.It is a 1/9 scale flying model. Wingspan of 1.6m It will be finished as a Dutch Navy example in overall Insignia Yellow

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[Luig]

Good luck with the model. Is that balsa wood?
Phil.
Pic is a Sea Otter approaching HMAS Sydney (pic from AMOF in the book "Flying Stations")

This post has been edited by Luig on Aug 28 2007, 05:28 PM

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[Luig]

Children's playground Sea Otter:

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[Joe Barr]

Hi Gordy

1701A also used JN105, JN106, and JN116 at Maryborough before they moved on to Kai Tak.

Also JM820 was being test flown at Bankstown 29.6.45 when the starboard undercarriage collapsed and she ground looped on landing.

Will keep looking for more if you want them!

Joe

[Luig]

Probably not helpful to what is known but another bit of info:

http://www.navy.gov.au/spc/history/aviation/seaotter.html

[Luig]

Sea Otter Returns, See Otter taxies:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38049473@N00/324747781/sizes/o/


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[Luig]

See Sea Otter Water Taxi:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38049473@N00/324747675/sizes/o/in/photostream/

RN Sea Otter 1701 Sqn RN Fraser Island (Qld) August 1945

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[Luig]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Seagull:

"The Seagull Mk III was the Australian version, built in 1925. These were similar to the Seagull II but with a Napier Lion V engine and radiators modified for tropical use. Six of these were supplied to the Australians."
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._101_Flight_RAAF

"No. 101 Flight RAAF was a Royal Australian Air Force fleet co-operation flight. The Flight was formed on 1 July 1925 and was equipped with Fairey III amphibian aircraft. These aircraft were replaced with Supermarine Seagull IIIs in 1926. Aircraft from No. 101 flight operated from the Royal Australian Navy seaplane tender HMAS Albatross between 1929 and 1933. After Albatross paid off the Flight's aircraft operated from the RAN's heavy cruisers HMAS Australia and HMAS Canberra. No. 101 Flight was expanded to form No. 5 Squadron on 20 April 1936."
______________________________

Seagull being catapulted from HMAS Albatross (late 1930s - my guess)

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[Luig]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:101_Flight_%28AMW_P01817-006%29.jpg

"Copyright: The AWM record for this photo states that the copyright status is 'clear'. The photo was taken between 1926 and 1936.
AWM Caption: Australia, 1926-1935. Two Supermarine Seagull III seaplanes of No. 101 Fleet Co-operation Flight RAAF being hoisted out of the water and aboard the seaplane carrier HMAS Albatross (not in view) by means of the ship's cranes. The amphibious aircraft have just returned from a flying mission. One crewman from each seaplane is riding on the top wing of the aircraft, after having attached the cable of the crane to the seaplane. The aircraft in the foreground is no. A9-3. (Donor R. Johnson)"

This post has been edited by Luig on Mar 4 2008, 01:59 PM

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[Luig]

Seagull V (over Port Melbourne?) A2-16

This post has been edited by Luig on Mar 4 2008, 03:47 PM

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[Joe Barr]

Thanks Gordy - good stuff.

Just think. if this is even read by the War Memorial caption writers it might teach them the difference between seaplanes, flying boats and amphibians!

Joe

[Luig]

You have touched a sore point there about the AWM caption writers. Good luck trying to get them to change anything. They are the experts. I rest me case (and I gave up as you would guess). :huh:

[Joe Barr]

About 15 to 20 years ago they weren't too bad and would accept advice but since they got "professionalised" it seems that they have a very high opinion of their abilities.

Reminds me of an old ex-Army friend (since dead) who did some work there many years ago on Army records. He found some WW2 records mixed in with the WW1 records and suggested that they be moved to the correct area. He left in disgust when this was refused by the archivists because "it would destroy the provenance of the records".

Nuff said.

Joe

[Luig]

Fair comment about others (not shutterbug) donating old photos to AWM and not having correct info to go with it. However... I notice on the web a lot of old photos that have senile captions - so I guess I'm headed there at some stage. :blink: