Australia, France Eye Collaboration, on special forces NH90 helicopters

Australia, France eye collaboration on special forces NH90 helicopters
20 Jan 2016 Dominic Perry

"Australia and France are investigating a potential joint requirement for a special forces variant of the NH Industries (NHI) NH90 to trim development costs.

With only a small pool of helicopters requiring modification, France would look to share the financial commitment, says Maj Gen Olivier de la Motte, commander, French army aviation.

“We are speaking about a common version at the moment with Australia,” he said on the sidelines of the IQPC International Military Helicopter conference on 18 January. “We could have the same version for both forces.”...

...Both nations have substantial fleets of NH90s on order: Australia will eventually field a fleet of 47 of the troop transports, while the French army will have a 74-strong inventory, having added a six-unit order in January....

...Its [FRENCH] special forces are in the early stages of drawing up the technical specification for any replacement, with the requirements likely to encompass a central trapdoor for fast roping, a rear door gun and changes to the communications suite.

“It is very early in the process,” says the source. “Our special forces would like the NH90, but want them to a certain specification. They make a request and then there will be an answer – yes to everything, yes to some things, or no to everything. Then [if appropriate] they will have to decide what they can do without.""

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/...l-force-421028/

I wonder if anyone has asked/is going to ask the SAS and Commandos what they actually NEED or will it be a case of, here is your new helicopter as decided by an MP or a Public Servant or a Star or a committee of all of the above.

Amen,.....the SF boy's love the MH-60 Blackhawk,. (.though pilots would like a newer glass cockpit version),..as they spill speed really good when flaring tail down, get out both sides by legging it or rappelling, m/guns cover all the time per forward window while not interfering with arcs and are a good working concern with SF Operators worldwide.

Have the headshed thought about what the US Army Does and recapitalise,..getting them rebuilt as new,..or even using the retiring Seahawk drivetrains,..401C (engines rotar etc and tail boom) to make a poor man's MH-60S fleet of 12 Spec warfare 6th Aviation Reg

Oh no, no more helicopter rebuilds, remember the Seasprite.

Lets just stick to 'Off The Shelf', look how good C-17, F-18F, F-18G and CH-47F worked. Just like shopping at a supermarket.

Special forces NH90 helicopter still under consideration 09 Dec 2016 Dominic Perry

"NH Industries (NHI) is continuing to talk with existing customers of its NH90 troop transport helicopter (TTH) about the possible launch of a dedicated special forces variant.

Initially proposed as a joint development for Australia and France, the idea has drawn interest from Germany, Italy and New Zealand, said Vincent Dubrule, president of the NHI consortium, speaking at an event in Germany on 8 December.

“It is under definition but it is not yet launched,” he says. “I don’t know when, because it depends on customer funding, but I hope it will be launched in the next couple of years and then implemented.”

All five nations recently met to discuss the proposal, he says, “and there is starting to be a framework around that”, although he notes there is no guarantee that all will participate in any development effort.

Under the plans initially envisaged by Australia and France, the special forces model would have a trapdoor for fast roping and enlarged rear windows to allow positioning of a machine gun while maintaining access to the cabin doors.

Any modifications would be available as either line- or retrofit options, he adds...."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/...nsidera-432295/

Of course we will talk to NHI even if its to get a great deal on some Mike Black Hawks..

Its simple as cheese,.....a Better MH-60 "Blackhawk" FMS Buy that utilises the current end users experience with S-70s for nearly 30 years.

Given the past 10 years of "almost" and then "nearly" etc etc MRH-90 operational levels and the whole Logistical chain issues,............in association with all of the parent company source's Helicopters,......the end user just wanted something that fits , works and is tough, covering all requirements, rather then glossy brochures and promises.

Mind you, it did provide employment as requested by the then government, since they are contractor labour intensive. But the end user does not agree on the happiness level.

Since the end of MH-60S production for the US Navy in 2015, and the near end of production of the MH-60R, even the Americans have started planning the mid life upgrade of the MH-60S/R from 2018,.......Generation 4 Computers and Avionics.

Given all of these historical developmental problems and mid life issues,...the end user would settle for today's best, then roll them over as trade-ins every 10-15 years for updated new ones. Given our track record of costs per Froggie Types,....a lot cheaper at US Mates Rates.

We'd be back trading or having rebuilt our AH-64Ds now for AH-64Es by 2020 had we bought those, and still using our UH/MH-60Ms till 2025, without all of the chit that has happened over the last 11 years.

Phew,..peeves me that a layman can see their follies,..the Frogs are leaning on us per developments per MRH-90s and ARH ( even the certification of Hellfire M,(Now out of production).and the new R version...that have twice the range of the Laser Designator fitted!!!!) No different per KC30A Program,......Procurement History should be repeated year in year out,.....Geezes,.....are they that stupid????

Indeed they are it seems except the Navy. When was the last time we fought in a Europe Ground war, where these are primarily designed for????? (Historians note, Greece 1941)Specifically, we're Asian Major or minor!! Pacifically( Pun intended)

Out

Oh look - this journalistic type Mike Yeo that says he spoke exclusively with Lt. Col. Kim Gilfillan, commanding officer of the 5th Aviation Regiment stated that 6th Aviation Regiment (the chaps that support the commandos and chicken stranglers) will introduce the MRH-90 in 2019, but fails to tell us the most important matter of where the new gun mount will be located??? if it is still mounted around the main side door entry/exit it is not really a solution is it.... so we would have to ass-ume that they will punch out and enlarge a window ???

"But now the 6th Aviation Regiment is planning to introduce the type—which is designated and named the MRH-90 Taipan in Australia—in 2019.

A report on the MRH-90 by the Australian National Audit Office (ANAO) in 2014 noted that the original self-defense door gun impeded “a range of cabin workflow requirements” including fast-roping operations by special forces troops. So the Army will be introducing a new gun mount, according to Lt. Col. Kim Gilfillan, commanding officer of the 5th Aviation Regiment, which already operates the type.

Speaking exclusively to AIN during a recent visit to his base at Townsville, Gilfillan said the new mount will be able to fire the Dillon M134D 7.62mm mini gun as well as the General Purpose Machine Gun (GPMG), while allowing Special Forces operators to conduct missions using the new fast roping, rappelling and extraction system (FRRES) at the same time. now the 6th Aviation Regiment is planning to introduce the type—which is designated and named the MRH-90 Taipan in Australia—in 2019."

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/def...tralian-service

This post has been edited by Grumpy Cobra on Dec 2 2017, 02:16 PM

A recent image of the "guns" fit out on one of our MRH-90 from Defence Image library

https://images.defence.gov.au/fotoweb/cache...8.x104376ae.jpg

If I remember the strength of the floor was an issue, they seem to have fixed that.

Now what about a fully laden soldier getting out with the doorway blocked?

Surely it would make loading a stretcher a lot harder.


They seem to have ignored that 2014 report mentioned above.

Wasn't there talk of adding an extra window for the gun like the waist gunner position in WWII bombers?

https://images.defence.gov.au/fotoweb/archi...2018/S20182335/

Attached Image

https://images.defence.gov.au/fotoweb/cache...8.x104376ae.jpg

This post has been edited by Luig on Jul 5 2018, 10:04 PM

Attached Image

Bandaid solutions.