Kiwi Skyhawks

[Dave Masterson]

Anyone heard any more on the saga of the Kiwi Skyhawk sale?

Dave :rolleyes:

[sean]

:huh: Have a look at this site re latest on the A4 & MB339 sales.
http://rnzaf.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=Postwar&action=display&thread=1129938104&page=2

[Dave Masterson]

Thanks for that Sean.

Dave :)

[sean]

Looks like there are problems with the sale.... This is hot off the press this morning:

http://stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3686007a11,00.html

Skyhawk sale in trouble, National says
01 June 2006

The $155 million deal to sell the Air Force's redundant strike wing appears to be in trouble, although the Government says it is just taking longer than expected.


The sale of the 17 Skyhawks and 17 Aermacchi jets to a private United States company, Tactical Air Services, was announced in September last year, just before the general election.

Eight months later they are still here and the National Party says no deposit has been paid, no planes have been prepared for delivery and the US State Department has not given consent for the sale.

"There appears to be significant problems," said National's defence spokesman Murray McCully.

"It's starting to look like this transaction, announced so triumphantly a week before the election, has turned into a major bungle."

Acting Defence Minister Jim Sutton said the Government did not realise how long it would take to get the planes to the buyer.

"We judged it by what sort of time frame you'd expect in New Zealand. That was clearly a mistake but not a capital offence," he said on TV One News.

Mr Sutton confirmed that no money had been received. "I understand it's essentially a COD (cash on delivery) contract."

The Government said when it announced the sale that it was conditional on the State Department permitting the importation of the planes into the United States.

Mark Burton, defence minister at that time, said the jets would be used for pilot training under a US Government contract.

Mr McCully suggested there was a problem gaining State Department consent for the sale, and said the Government should explain precisely what was going on.

The Government scrapped the strike wing in late 2001, and storage and maintenance costs were put at $300,000 a month – a four-year total of more than $14 million.

[Brendan Cowan]

Thanks Sean,

It seems hard to think of a disposal deal (excepting trade backs against new equipment purchases) that has gone smoothly for a long time.

BC

[herkman]

At least with land equipment, the US does not noprmally allow the reimportaion of military equipment back into the states. The particulary applies to military vehicles to private buyers.

Now airplanes may be another thing all together, by approval could take a very long time.

Regards

Col

[Dave Masterson]

What's the bet that a couple of these aircraft will go to Museums..the rest to the scrappers.


Dave :(

[sean]

Yer I would put some money on that bet, especially on the A4s. I think the MB339's might be a different story, if marketed the right way. I think the avionics in the A4 will be or is the big issue, not so much the air frame or engines.

[Dave Masterson]

This in from the New Zealand Herald




Herald on Sunday



Red tape has temporarily delayed the Government's sale of the Skyhawks. Picture / Simon Baker


Government waiting in the wings for Skyhawks sale

Friday June 16, 2006


The apparently stalled sale of the Air Force's redundant strike wing will take some time yet, Defence Minister Phil Goff says.

Opposition MPs have highlighted the fact the $155 million deal to sell the 17 Skyhawks and 17 Aermacchi jets to a private United States company, Tactical Air Services, appears to have run into trouble.

Mr Goff yesterday confirmed the process was more difficult than the Government had thought and would take more time.

He said one of the company's partners had withdrawn and it was now looking for another.

The sale also had to win the approval of the US State Department and both the House of Representatives and Senate.

Mr Goff said it was not a case of "bungling" by the Defence Force or Ernst & Young, which is selling the aircraft on behalf of the Government.

"These are difficulties that are out of our control," he told Parliament's foreign affairs, defence and trade select committee.

He said there was a limited market for the aircraft, so the Government was committed to pursuing the sale with the US company.

In most countries, the Skyhawks were seen as vintage and were put on display.

The sale had the backing of the US Army and Air Force.

Mr Goff has previously said it costs about $130,000 a month to maintain the planes for sale.

The chairman and chief executive of Tactical Air Services, Hoss Pearson, said the sale was not in trouble and was going ahead as planned.

"We are working this aggressively and want the State Department to give us approval."

He said the delay in approval was "normal bureaucracy".

"But it is progressing through the system now and it is going to happen."

The aircraft would probably be ready to be shipped to the US in two to three months.

"There is no problem," he said, when asked if he was still confident the deal would go through.

- NZPA

[darren.crick]

this is better than a soapie...

[Brendan Cowan]

Hoss is in charge at this soapie but is this the real Bonanza?

:huh:

BC

[Dave Masterson]

The latest from NZ re the Syhawks.


Jul 13, 2006

The stalled sale of New Zealand's old Skyhawk fighter jets continues to embarrass the government, which has spent more than $1 million trying to find a buyer.

Defence Minister Phil Goff hopes Winston Peters can hurry the sale along when he meets US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice in Washington next week, but the Foreign Minister won't even confirm the meeting is going ahead.

Scrapping the Skyhawks was controversial, but selling them is proving near impossible.

"In many countries around the world I've seen them used as memorials but not as fighter aircraft - they're too old for that," says Goff.

A buyer was found nearly a year ago with the private US flight training school Tactical Air Services wanting the aircraft. But before that deal is done New Zealand needs approval from the US State Department which doesn't normally allow private companies to buy military equipment from foreign governments.

"If there was an alternative purchaser then obviously we'd be looking there - that is not the case," says Goff.

Sales agent Ernst and Young has been paid more than $1 million to sell the aircraft so far, and the law firm Russell McVeagh has billed the government for more than $300,000 of legal advice on the contract.

National's defence spokesman Murray McCully says covering costs is fair enough but he objects to a "success fee" that has also been paid out when the sale has yet to be made.

"To pay them $1.1 million for a fee on a sale that hasn't actually occurred and might not occur - someone's lost the plot," says McCully.

But Goff says a commission will only be paid to Ernst & Young when the deal is finalised and he hopes Peters can assist with that when he goes to the US to meet Rice next week. "I think it may well be on the list of things he could raise with the Secretary of State and I hope if he has time he is able to do that."

But Peters is refusing to say when he is going to Washington or who he is meeting there.

[Martin Edwards]

...memories of the disposal and sale/non sale of the RAAF C130A Hercules fleet!

[Brugal]

Speaking about the Macchi's, the Argentine navy (and this is from official Argentine sources) has requested information about the MB.339's in store for possible purchase ....... outcome not known yet B)

Chhers!

Brugal

[herkman]

AH the A model disposal. A story riddled with greed and lack of knowledge< and our government let it happen.

If you could find out all the facts, would make a good book.

The problem really was, by the time disposal came around, they had little value, and by the time they started moving on, were even older.

I would like to the think that we would do a better job today, but then I wonder.

Regards

Col

[Dave Masterson]

AdvertisementThe air force's last combat squadron of 17 old Skyhawks has been shrouded in the military equivalent of cling wrap and parked out in the weather to free hangar space.


The aircraft, which have all been coated with white latex at a cost of $94,000, were yesterday towed out of the Safe Air hangar at Blenheim's Woodbourne air base, where they have been stored for the past five years.

They were moved so Safe Air can start upgrading the air force C-130 Hercules aircraft.

Air force spokesman Glenn Davis said the Skyhawks were parked on the tarmac about 200 metres from the hangar.

Disposal of the Skyhawks has been a headache for the Government since the air combat wing was disbanded in 2002.

It took three years to find a buyer but the deal has been held up since by United States Government red tape.

Under the original sale agreement, the US has to ratify any sale of the aircraft.

Defence Minister Phil Goff said the sale process "remains in play" despite frustrations over the delays.

It has cost the air force more than $8 million to store and maintain the Skyhawks and jet trainers since 2002.

ACT party defence spokeswoman Heather Roy said the planes should be sold to enthusiasts rather than parked.

"The sale is pretty much doomed and a much better option would be to sell them off to collectors."

The Skyhawks were now worth virtually nothing.

Former Skyhawk avionics technician Don Simms said: "This is the final nail in the coffin – they'll never fly again. They're absolutely stuffed."

He estimated it would take $2million to $3 million per aircraft to get them flying again, more than they were worth.

[Rod Farquhar]

Oh Dear!!!
Rod.:huh:

[Luig]

The Skyhawks have gone to the equivalent of the knackery. Sadly.

[Luig]

Check out the 'coconut roughs' here:

http://capphotography.fotopic.net/c1423645.html

[Martin Edwards]

I bet Woodbourne is no Davis-Monthan so who knows the long term prospects for these aircraft.
I reckon that I am not the only one that would have preferred that one H Clark was wrapped in latex and put out to pasture!

[darren.crick]

I know some NZ'ers who would agree with you Martin... like comments posted before they should just get em to museum's etc now... I'm sure some here would be interested in ex Aussie examples. FAAM for one...

[Luig]

Gordy, That kind of BS about TA-4J RNZAF Skyhawks makes one wonder about the other BS in those magazines. Is that issue worth buying for the Skyhawk info or have you given us the guts of the article already? Keep reading and I'll stop buying. :rolleyes:

[Andy Marden]

The reference to two RNZAF TA-4Js being supplied to Indonesia actually refers to two ex USN TA-4Js (154315 and 158454) which went to Indonesia as TL-0418 and TL-0419. The New Zealand connection comes from the fact that they were both prepared by (SAFE Air?) at Woodbourne. I saw them both there in Jan99.
Regards,
Andy Marden

[Luig]

Thanks Andy, Good to know the mag was almost correct. :blink: