Only In America, We hope

[Shep]

Oh dear …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igAt42sMsiU

Perhaps the usual “bitching Betty” aural warnings were changed to a more demonic type, “get oouuuttt …”

[Shep]

Some situational irony ?!

According to the below link, the debris field has been found in Williamsburg County (burg = town). Pity it wasn't "Williamburg"

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f-35-...for-missing-jet

[Brenden S]

Good ol US of A......

[Shep]

Cheers, Brenden.

I seem to remember Spaz making a comment a couple of years ago (reference the RAAF F/A-18F which departed the runway during take off at Amberley) that part of the sequence of events during the crews’ emergency egress was that the said ejection sequence automatically cut power to the engines.

If that is true, then it seems like a jolly good idea.

If that isn’t true, then this zombie F-35 incident makes a reasonable case as to why it should be – what with FBW and what-not trying to maintain an optimal AoA an' all.

So, in the unlikely event that the pilot leaves to go home before the flight is finished (was he duty limited, or wot?!), the jet doesn’t continue on (and on) (and on). (Not to mention things like what ever happened to “see and avoid”? or, who would’ve been the one blamed if one of these “zombie” jets bumps into an airliner).

Anyway, if these F-35’s are so effn smart and the glossy brochures say it can do this, that and the other without anybody else seeing it, then how come it’s too dumb to know that it is suddenly 300kg lighter than it should be at an absolutely flight critical airframe station number (i.e. that the canopy, driver and seat aren’t there anymore)?

Image if it was a similar scenario to the F/A-18 runway departure, loaded with fuel (and maybe also with real munitions, etc – heading off for a spot of live-fire at the range) and – for whatever reason – the pilot gets flicked out of the jet just as it is adopting the climb attitude – then, with the computer trying (rather successfully as recent events show us) to keep the aeroplane “truckin’ right” even with the extra drag of a suddenly open cockpit and not seeming to care that the weight on the pilot and ejection seat have suddenly vanished, it heads off, as the USAF song goes, “into the wild blue yonder …”.

Yep, it’s all fun and games until someone gets poked in the eye …

[And yes, I know it was USMC and not air force].

Edit: undid some spelink missteaks

This post has been edited by Shep on Sep 26 2023, 08:04 PM

[Brenden S]

I did read somewhere that the jet actually did it what it was meant to do and continue flying straight to allow the pilot to land safely. Part of the ejection is to scramble all the electronics, thus why it took them such a long time to find.

[Shep]

Not ADF of course, but posted here as a kind of full stop.

On 17SEP24 the USMC released a report on this event.

The report, dated 17JAN24 is in three parts (385 pages or so - including blobs of green (redacted content)) which can be downloaded via the link, below.

If you happen to be interested, here 'tis ...

https://www.hqmc.marines.mil/Agencies/USMC-FOIA/FRR/

Look under, "COMMAND INVESTIGATION - F-35 MISHAP OF MAG-31 VMFAT-501 ON 17 SEP 23".

[Shep]

So much for the full stop.

This from https://www.2ndmaw.marines.mil/News/Article...b-lightning-ii/ … :

“The pilot safely ejected from the aircraft while attempting to execute a climbout during a missed approach in instrument meteorological conditions and heavy precipitation near Joint Base Charleston, South Carolina. The aircraft continued to fly unmanned for 11 minutes and 21 seconds before impacting in a rural area approximately 64 nautical miles northeast of the airfield in Williamsburg County, South Carolina”.

“The pilot incorrectly diagnosed an out-of-controlled flight emergency and ejected from a flyable aircraft, albeit during a heavy rainstorm compounded with aircraft electrical and display malfunctions.

Contributing factors to the mishap included an electrical event during flight, which induced failures of both primary radios, the transponder, the tactical air navigation system, and the instrument landing system; and the probability that the helmet-mounted display and panoramic cockpit display were not operational for at least three distinct periods. This caused the pilot to become disoriented in challenging instrument and meteorological conditions”.



Your mental arthimagic would be, without doubt, better than mine but, to me, 64nm in 11.3 minutes is close enough to 350kts for grubberment work.

So, in response to :
Also there is a thread about the 'lost F-35B in South Carolina' where there are claims that the F-35 should shut down the engine when the pilot ejects. This is 'obviously' not true and I am struggling to think why it is necessary - shirley the pilot should shut the engine down before ejecting?

Because a jet (designed to be flown by an onboard pilot) flying for 64nm at 350kts without said chairman of the steering committee being present is why. And I didn’t say – or suggest – that the pilot, in a situation that they believe warrants themselves punching out, should be required to spend the time to close the throttles and turn the fuel off (and whatnot). It is my understanding (and I’m sure you can confirm this) that pilots since the advent of ejection seats have been told and reminded and told again to: not delay any decision to eject – to make the decision early – even (this is from a ‘merican film from the (I think) early ‘80s called something like “A Second Too Late”) to make the decision before flight (to eject if certain adverse parameters present themselves – thereby not delaying the decision in an otherwise high stress and often confusing emergency).

Now, my other post was flippant – deliberately so – but the basic thrust of the argument was – is – that if all the advertising and fan based commentary about this machine is to be believed (and, I’m sorry, I don’t – it might surprise one or two people to learn that I’m not a fan) then it isn’t too far beyond reason to suggest that, whilst it is obvious that the throttles aren’t automatically shut during ejection, that perhaps an additional string of code could be added to this things brain so that – in the unlikely event that the wheels are retracted (or, if they’re not that there is no weight on wheels) AND if the thing has wind whistling passed its pitot tubes (I reckon 350-some-knots might qualify) AND the canopy has gone AND there is no effn seat in the plane, that it might then be able to see its way clear to smoothly retard the accelerator to idle – if for no other reason than to avoid it flying for 64 nm and possibly hitting another object, like, say, an airliner full of people.

Surely it is not unreasonable – since these machines can sense all sorts of things about how it and its systems are functioning – to suggest that perhaps something similar to a “door ajar” sensor could be added to detect if the canopy is open (well, not just that – but that it has gone), and something like a “handbrake on” sensor which could be adapted to tell whether the black’n’yellow handles have been yanked along with a sensor that might be able corroborate if the weight of the ejection seat + pilot is no longer where they should be and then something to (I don't know, say, crimp the fuel lines or shut off a (the) fuel pump(s)).

Anyway, if anyone was confused, that is what I was getting at.

:)

The film referred to above is called, "Ejection Decision - A Second Too Late" (1981).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa1Ba_NEobs

Edit: Added correct name of film and link to same and, as usual, fixed some sausage finger keyboard mashing typing.

[B][/B]

This post has been edited by Shep on Nov 12 2024, 09:01 AM

[SpazSinbad]

Long ramble above Shep' so I'll not attempt to rehash it all. Firstly I am puzzled why you do not like the F-35. Currently plenty of countries are buying it or intend to buy it because even though it is expensive - it will survive many combat flights to remain the best affordable fighter - for the moment. Lots of paper airyplanes are mooted but none fly on record (except a 'maybe'). Leaving that aside I'm agreeing that the pilot needs to shut the engine down before ejecting however sometimes - as you say - there is no time.

Being spatially disorientated close to the ground in bad weather is no joke. YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE THERE - to be him - to understand/experience what he was undergoing; otherwise all that is well documented because of the after crash info seen about the 'electrics problems'. Although this pilot was well experienced, he had only 35 flying hours in the F-35 (with perhaps an equivalent or greater amount in the excellent FMS Full Mission Simulator). But that is not enough time to be really at ease in quite a different computer age cockpit instrument flying experiencing SD.

There is a KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) perhaps at work in the F-35 even though it is probably a very complex jet - especially the F-35B. Having extra functions which could also malfunction probably made only the 'auto ejection during STOVL mode in the F-35B IF the engine started to fail when airborne' was apparently resisted by the early test pilots it has been said, until they realised they could not otherwise respond to said failure in the required 0.6 seconds before catastrophe. The aircraft would rotate so quickly that a manual pilot ejection was not possible.

List of countries buying the F-35 from LM Fast Facts Nov 2024: https://www.f35.com/content/dam/lockheed-ma...ts_November.pdf



This post has been edited by SpazSinbad on Nov 12 2024, 01:31 PM

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