Uh1b N9-3104

[Demon50]

Here's one for the serial sleuths out there.

A discussion on Oz-spotters is querying the the former ADF identity of UH1B, VH-NVV.

The CASA website shows its c/n as 715 whereas ADF Serials and other sources I have shows it as c/n 3104. However, the correspondent believes "715" is correct which he assumes makes it the former A2-715.

The reference for A2-715 in Stewart Wilson's book, "Vampire, Macchi and Iroquois in Australian Service" shows "A2-715 US Serial 63-9785 c/n 715 damaged beyond repair at RAAF Pearce W A in November 1970."

Another reference I have reports A2-715 as being finally "written off" from
official records in early 1971.

And Wilson's entry for N9-3104 shows "N9-3104 US Serial 64-12846 c/n 3104 with Naval Aircraft Museum Nowra NSW."

However, I've been doing some research and the more I delve, the messier things get !

It appears that the US serial "64-12846" for N9-3104 quoted in
Stewart Wilson's book is not correct as according to Joe Baugher's
site, "64-12846" was allocated to a Martin Bullpup missile.

Joe's site also goes on to say :

......"64-17621/17623 Bell UH-1B-BF Iroquois c/n 3101/3103. For Royal
Australian Navy as N9-3101/3103 1965

N9-3103 crashed 3/26/1981, Nowra NSW. Converted to components.

I have a reference to 64-17624 as being delivered to RAN as N9-3104.
Conflicts with C-130E.

N9-3104 may be a composite made up from useable parts salvaged from
written-off RAAF UH-1Bs."............

ADF Serials also quotes 64-17624 as being the US serial of N9-3104 which appears to perpetrate an error.

However, I very much doubt Joe's assertion that N9-3104 is a composite airframe as it was supposedly delivered new in 1966.

Can anyone confirm the correct US serial of N9-3014, that it was a complete new airframe delivered from the US in 1966 and dispel the suggestion that it may have been a composite aircraft from w/o RAAF UH1Bs ?

I think that A2-715 is long since dead and that CASA may be mistaken on this occasion.

Also, given the bitter inter service rivalry and pettiness, it seems odd that the Navy would have taken ex RAAF chopper(s) into its Fleet Air Arm and much later into its museum.

I would bet that VH-NVV is/was N9-3014.

[Dave Masterson]

Bob

Bob "Windy" Geale at the AMOF at Nowra is looking into this one. From what he can find at the moment, the a/c was delivered new from the US, it crashed in 1971 and was rebuilt in Brisbane. Now with the RAN Historic Flight, but like all of the other aircraft is grounded at this time. He will get back with some more info on the aircraft presently.

Dave :unsure:

[Demon50]

Hi Dave

Thanks for your reply.

I always suspected that N9-3104 was delivered new and is now VH-NVV.

It seems that the CASA Website and hence the Oz-spotters correspondent has got it wrong on this occasion but I wonder how CASA made the error.

From previous investigations involving original US serials on aircraft that have been sold overseas, there seems to be some confusion caused by inaccurate records in the 60s which was at the height of the Vietnam conflict.

[Dave Masterson]

No worries. I have sent through the 723 Squadron "line Book" entry for this crash.It has been sent on your adf-serials e mail address. I also have a copy of the Squadron diary entry for the incident, I just have to find it! If you like I'll send that through to you also.

Dave :)

[Dave Masterson]

OK Bob here we go. This information comes from Bob GEALE (walking computer when it comes to this stuff) "Bell Iroquois UH-1B N9-3104 (898) built as United States Army serial No 65-12846 accepted by RAN 10 November 1966,crashed on airfield on 28 March 1971,repaired,returned to service. Is now part of RAN Historic Flight as VH-NVV but grounded for administrative reasons this year. I think their problem was in their administrative number...it should be 65 series not 64 as the aircraft was built in 1965"

Dave

[herkman]

Some one can jump in and correct me, but we were always taught that the "build year" often do not match up.

This really I understand, the year that the contract was issued, not always however the year the airplane is built.

The C130A has serials starting with 57 and the E models start 65, both series of airplanes for us, were not built until 58 and 66.

Just thought I would mention it, as it can lead you down a path which may not be wrong.

Regards

Col Tigwell

[Brendan Cowan]

Quite Right Col,

The USAF Serials are sometimes also referred to as a "contract number".

The contract/serial is alloted at time of order - so the fiscal year prefix refers to that - not delivery.

Actually, that is another important distinction, the prefix is fiscal year - not calendar year.

In decades past - it was quite common for both order and delivery to occur in the same fiscal year - which lead to some folks misinterpreting the serial as linked to delivery.

Contract and delivery in the same FY is rarity these days of course - but can still happen - especially when they purchase the odd second hand hand airframe.

Cheers

BC

[Dean]

I concur. It only refers to the year the aircraft was authorised FOR manufacture and NOT when it was built.