RN Sea Venoms used by RAN

I found this photo in a magazine and it purports to be of Venom FAW20s belonging to 808Sqn RAN.
It was taken for the official forming of that Sqn at Culdrose UK in 1955.
The two aircraft in lower right have serials 263 and 203, this information does not seem to fit what we have.
Can anyone shed some light??
Rod.

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Rod...most likely RN aircraft and never purchased by the RAN. The Sea Venom page on the site is pretty well exhaustive re serials Numbers. I would say that the pic is just a PR shot.

Thanks Dave, you're probably right as they all appear to have Royal Navy stencilled on the booms.
Rod.

Rod, one day I will send more photos of RAN aircraft that are not on ADF-serials. My work is taken up by the 4.4GB PDF. Anyway here is at least one photo from that PDF sent by Michael Sandberg, son of 'Sandy' RAN Observer in UK at that time. You are welcome to use this photo and if needed I can send/post one without any annotations. I'll enquire about the situation with RN/RAN aircraft at that time.

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Same source & time/place - UK 1955

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Same again....

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Best Resolution available shows the leader has no Side Number yet but like all the aircraft from 808 Squadron so far they each have the tip tank flash

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Last one for luck - you are welcome to use them all.

This post has been edited by Luig on Nov 25 2011, 09:27 AM

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808 Squadron Tip Tanks. Note the distinctive tip tank paint scheme in this crew photo onboard HMAS Melbourne 1957.

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From an old e-mail from 'Sandy' is this information: "Any Sea Venom Mk.20 aircraft flown by 808 Squadron in UK did not have ejection seats." This likely answers the original question about some apparently 'odd' RAN Venoms. And note what was likely the first tip tank paint scheme (it was easy to change these schemes as 805 Squadron and 'B Flight 816' Squadron and sometimes 724 Squadron had there unique tip tank paint schemes.

This post has been edited by Luig on Nov 25 2011, 09:51 AM

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Great selection Phil.

Is it posible that 808 borrowed some RN airframes that were not ultimately taken on RAN charge for the formation flypast?

Just a guess, but going to the effort of painting tip tanks on borrowed airframes would be unusual. (says Brendan arguing aginst his own wild theory).

BC

Thanks Phil,
Looks like Dave might have to add a new chapter to the Sea Venom page.
Rod.

This post has been edited by Rod Farquhar on Nov 25 2011, 08:39 PM

More or less Brendan these are the only 808 Squadron Sea Venom photos I have.

All the RAN Sea Venoms were Mk.53 F.A.W. so I'm guessing that initially not all the Venoms in use in UK by 808 Squadron were that variety so the other ones were substituted temporarily. I have e-mailed Sandy via his son and within a few days may have more information for you.

"Any Sea Venom Mk.20 aircraft flown by 808 Squadron in UK did not have ejection seats." So the unusual ones were perhaps Mk.20. AFAIK it was easy to paint the tip tanks. That would be the only change - temporarily.

Thanks Phil,

As Rod says, we might be opening another chapter here.

I recall that with the Sea Furies and Fireflys, several RN FAA aircraft were used during work up and commissioning and then substituted with other aircraft which were then taken on permanent RAN FAA charge.

Cheers

BC

Nice to see the photos of Venom 20s with 808, Phil. The Air Britain book on RN FAA aircraft since 1945 shows the following information on the aircraft serials I can read from your pictures:

WM512 808 Sqn (263) 30.6.55. Taxied into preceding acft WM548 which stopped suddenly at marshalling point, Yeovilton 22.11.55 Cat L. (Lt P.H. Wyatt, RAN, & Lt GB Eccleston, RAN, To RNAY Belfast 27.2.56 (recon)

WM549 808 Sqn Yeovilton (267) 12.8.55. RNAY Belfast 23.2.56 (recon & mods)

WM553 808 Sqn (261) 11.8.55 RNAY Belfast 23.2.56 (Cat 4 repairs & mods).


other Venom FAW20s recorded as serving with 808 are:

WM517 808 Sqn Yeovilton (265?) 30.6.55. ARS Yeovilton 22.7.55 (repairs and renewals) before returning to 808 Sqn Yeovilton 11.10.55. RNAY Belfast 27.2.56 (Cat 4 repair & inspection).

WM518 808 Sqn Yeovilton (268) 2.7.55. Struck while stationary by taxying WM550 19.9.55. ARS Yeovilton 20.9.55. 808 Sqn Yeovilton (267?) 6.2.56. RNAY Belfast 23.2.56 (recon).

WM519 808 Sqn Yeovilton (203) 16.8.55 RNAY Belfast 23.2.56 (recon) (Note: '203 was the existing code on WM519 from its previous unit 890 Sqn and may have been changed with 808)

WM548 808 Sqn Yeovilton 12.8.55. Stopped suddenly at marshalling point, taxied into by following a/c WM512, Yeovilton. Cat L. (L/C P.W. Seed & Lt D.G. Hilliard). RNAY Belfast 23.2.56 (recon) (Note: perhaps you can check the photo but I think this may have been coded 264)

WM550 808 Sqn Yeovilton (266) 30.6.55. Stbd brake bag burst, swung and hit WM518, Cat H. 19.9.55 (L/C A.J Gould RAN). RNAY Belfast 27.2.56 (recon & mods)

WM551 808 Sqn Yeovilton (265) 22.7.55. Approx 2 mins after instrument t/o for Culdrose in fog, struck tree, several buildings, 2 caravans in ratings' married quarters caravan site, and crashed into field. DBF (destroyed by fire). , Castle Farm on the main Bristol-Yeovil road, Ilchester, Cat ZZ 5.1.56. (Lt P.H. Wyatt, RAN, & Cdr G.F.S Brown, RAN both killed; also 2 killed & 3 injured on ground). RSP (reduced to spares and produce) 24.1.56.

RN damage categories are "L" Light damage. "H" heavy damage. "ZZ' Total loss, clearly unrepairable or beyond economic repair.

It was common for RAN squadrons working up in UK to be issued with RN aircraft before taking delivery of RAN aircraft. I have records of Fireflies and Furies in this category and can check the books for more if they are to be added to relevant pages.

Joe

Joe,

That would be great.

I'm sure that I'm not alone in wanting to see these airframes recored here on the site.

Brendan

It occurred to me that 808 might have had a Sea Vampire 22 attached for instrumnt flying and other training while working up at Yeovilton. Have found it!

XG773 808 Sqn Yeovilton 16.8.55. Stn charge Yeovilton 23.2.56

Joe

Good hunch Joe!

I like your thinking!

B)

BC

Yes, thanks Joe for your information on 808 Squadron aircraft in UK.

Initial response from 'Sandy' - before he has read all the e-mail text (from here) was this:

"They are all RN Sea Venoms loaned to 808 Sqn by RN 893 Sqn".

I'm guessing he was referring to aircraft in the initial photo posted here by Rod above, because that was sent in the e-mail also.

If any more information becomes available I'll post it here.

This post has been edited by Luig on Nov 28 2011, 05:54 PM

Thanks Phil,

Looking forward to that.

BC

Have received via e-mail some more Oz Venoms in UK but all are only loan aircraft as indicated in this scanned hand written note from Sandy Sandberg. More photos will be added to this thread later. Also I have several photos of a Sea Venom 'wrapped' but don't have any other details except the photo was in a bunch showing how the first batch of RAN S-2Es were transported from Garden Island by truck to be then flown to NAS Nowra. Meanwhile a day earlier the first batch of RAN A4Gs were off loaded by barge in Jervis Bay to HMAS Creswell to be transported by truck to NAS Nowra.

This post has been edited by Luig on Jan 16 2012, 05:37 AM

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More Pics later.... 808 Squadron with LOAN UK aircraft

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You are welcome to use these photos from Sandy Sandberg plus others in this thread. [Scanned by Sandy's son Michael.]

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I guess we see the Venom UK group taxiing before/after formation flight?

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Over UK coast somewhere....

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Thanks Phil
Perhaps a paragraph or two should be written and added to the Sea Venom page (any takers?)

You also got my attention with...

"a bunch showing how the first batch of RAN S-2Es were transported from Garden Island by truck"

...please do show and tell!

I'll start another thread with the S-2Es being transported from G.I. to Mascot etc. soon. Have been looking for the Sea Venom packaged (they must have been wrapped for the long voyage from UK to Sydney as some are seen on deck with Gannets). I guess the hangars contained more vulnerable stores or more aircraft. I'll attach a pic.

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05 June 1956 is the date on this photo of a Sea Venom on the back of a truck wrapped from long sea voyage from U.K. Truck convoyhas just arrived at NAS Nowra with the Police Escort shown. This is clear from the next larger group photo showing NAS Nowra airfield in background.

This post has been edited by Luig on Jan 16 2012, 08:12 PM

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Larger group showing clearly to me anyway that in the background is NAS Nowra airfield. Date 05 June 1956, Venom on truck having arrived from Sydney in a convoy etc.

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Excellent sequence Phil!

Thanks for sharing.

BC

Hi All,

I'm bringing the Sea Venom page up to our current format, so while I was at it, I thought I'd bring all the infomation that we've gathered here on these FAW.20's plus a bit more and add it to the page.

Here's a sneak peak ahead of publishing:

Updated N4 Sea Venom Page

Any other thoughts, ideas, corrections?

Cheers

BC

P.S. Heres a pic of Sea Venom FAW.53 WZ893 over the Run at Mudeford on 15th February 1955 prior to embarkation for Australia.

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Nice new photo in UK on this thread. I have seen 'new' details I have not known/read about before in the new updated Venom page. Nice work. My CO on VF-805 was Col Patterson. He never wanted to talk about any accident he had been in. I wonder what runway he hit the trees on when approaching. The Venom could go down quickly if approaching stall speed before the power came on.

Anyway there is one continuing issue with this information AFAIK.

I thought that this event was at night but not so. It was daytime. Here is the story:

Sea Venom Wire Break, Pilot: Eject; Observer: Fatal 29 April 1966
Pilot story: Leut John Da Costa
“A normal approach was made for an arrested landing, the Observer Lieutenant Kennel, calling the I.A.S. in the normal Sea Venom deck landing manner. The last Airspeed call I heard from Lt. Kennell immediately before arrestor wire engagement was 117 knots. The touchdown felt normal and the aircraft appeared to be lined up parallel to the centreline but slightly offset to Starboard.

A wire was engaged and initial retardation experienced but after what appeared to be approximately half wire pullout, retardation abruptly ceased and the aircraft rolled down the
deck. I immediately applied full power. I had no time to check the I.A.S. but as the aircraft left the Flight Deck and dropped the Port Wing, I realised that I did not have flying speed so called ‘Eject, Eject’. As I attempted to level the wings, the Observer jettisoned the canopy and I had the impression that he ejected immediately afterwards. By this time I had succeeded in levelling the wings and ejected myself. I felt that the aircraft was just about to or had just struck the water as I ejected. As I ejected I felt a sharp pain in the back and blow to my left foot. Entry into the water took place feet first and very shortly after ejection and was quite violent, my face mask tearing off as I entered the water.

I inflated my Life Saving Waistcoat as I submerged and immediately came to the surface. I released my parachute harness and thought I was completely disentangled until the SAR helicopter appeared and the slipstream began to blow the parachute canopy away. I found myself being dragged by the parachute until I managed to untangle a single shroud line hooked about my
neck and shoulder.

On first appearance of the SAR helicopter which was very soon after entry into the water, I disconnected my dinghy without inflating it and was picked up very shortly after clearing
myself from the parachute." At no time after ejection did I sight Lieutenant Kennell.”

He went on to say that the time between applying full power and going over the end of the flight deck was only 2 or 3 seconds; the aircraft did not remain hooked to the ship; the Sea Venom broke up immediately upon striking the water; and the ship did not stop as there were two other aircraft in the air that had to land."

Graphic of RAN Navy News page from 13 May 1966:

This post has been edited by Luig on Jul 26 2013, 06:44 PM

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Pilot was SBLT Clive Blennerhassett as per this 724 Squadron line book page (via Dave Masterson).

BTW you are welcome to use any of the photos / graphics I post as long as any person I credit (or is credited on the graphic) is credited also. No worries.

At two places online there are many PDFs about individual aircraft types such as the Sea Venom (may not be totatlly up to date but near enough) with the main 4.4GB PDF with the 'kitchen sink' - all RAN Fixed Wing types - up to date at:

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=cbcd63d6340707e6&sa=822839791
&
https://drive.google.com/?authuser=0#folder...aDhIQ0szeVJFY0U

Again you are welcome to use material as long as it is credited to the originator (but not any commercial material for obvious reasons I guess). Everything from me on this thread is already in the PDFs mostly. But - wait - there's more.... :blink:

This post has been edited by Luig on Jul 26 2013, 07:11 PM

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Project Get Out and Walk

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Country...y/Australia.htm

Thanks Luig,

That fills in more of the picture.

Martin has updated the Sea Venom Image Gallery and we have made the new page live today. :D

Dave M has also volunteered to help us out once more with our RAN pages - Hooray! :D

We'll have to update the Sea Venom page again with some of the new information on this thread! :rolleyes:

Cheers

BC