Kaman Seasprite

[Dave Masterson]

Heard on the news tonight that the Governement has ordered that all of the Navy's Seasprite helicopters be grounded. This is due to the technical problems that they are having with them. Furthur to this that the Government is considering sueing Kaman in the U.S for "Breach of Contract", they are also considering replacing the Seasprite with another helicopter at a cost of at least 1 Billion dollars. Has anyone heard anything furthur to all of this?

Dave :o

[penders]

Yes I also saw the news tonight and it comes as no surprise to me. The big issue seems to be the avionics contract for the Seasprite. The Seasprite airframe seems to perform quite well but is let down in the avionics side of things. I think that the whole package was a problem right from the start and has never seemed to be rectified. A damn shame if they are scrapped but really I just couldnt see it going down that path.

<_<

[Brendan Cowan]

Software flaw final straw

The Australian, May 15, 2006

LEGAL action may be launched against US suppliers of Australia's troubled Super Seasprite helicopter now grounded with technical problems, the government says.

The Australian navy bought 11 of the helicopters from US defence contractor Kaman Aerospace for $1 billion in 1997, but the Seasprites have been plagued by technical problems and has never been fully operational.
Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said today he had banned the Seasprites from flying because of the latest difficulties, software and technical problems.

"I have asked the Department of Defence to consider all options including, if appropriate, legal action against the contractors who have not fulfilled their obligations to Australia and to Australian taxpayers," Dr Nelson told reporters in Melbourne.

"We've been let down seriously by a number of contractors.

"We have had delays and essentially as far as I am concerned the software failures we faced in late March have been the straw that's broken the camel's back."

A defence review, due to report by the end of June, may recommend the choppers be replaced at a cost of at least another $1 billion.

A key defence lobby group, the Australian Defence Association, earlier today urged the government to sue the US contractors over the failed Seasprite program.

"Unless you start trying to punish some of these defence contractors for not delivering the capability that they were contracted to deliver, you're not really going to solve the problem in the long run," ADA executive director Neil James said.

AAP

[darren.crick]

The answer is simple, dont pay until they are delivered and meet required tests...

[Dave Masterson]

Maybe Navy will take out all of the problematic electronic gadgetry and use them like the Kiwi's do. They could still send them to sea on an ANZAC frigate instead of sending a Squirel..either way it appears to be a very costly problem. Can't see them being scrapped, surely, they have spent to much money on them, they will have to try and salvage something :huh:

[darren.crick]

thats the problem and the contractors know it!!!

They have already spent heaps and wont throw it away, but pay more to make the investment worthwhile...

[Warhawk]

I have to admit I'm confused as to the basic question: why is it so hard to resolve the problem?
There must be off the shelf COTS solution?
Aerodynamically, she's a winner.

If they can have an aircraft system such as what was on say the A4K, Westland Lynx MK8 or even what ,a RNZAF SH-2 Avionics, that replicates the main roles, then surely its a question of airframe/avionics integration.

I may be over simplifying it, but it's not as though it's new ground breaking technology is it.

Basically a anti-ship/ Patrol/that needs a radar, avionics to back up the main roles; Radar Modes (AS/AA/SWT),Targeting, and of course FLIR, etc.

Is it weight, or a simple matter of grafting say a Royal Norwegian Air Force F-16 Avionics package into it? (They have all the modes needed for the penguin)

A question of why and how the specs don't add up at this point. Perhaps drop the Penguin ASM role and transfer these to the Seahawks (already cleared on USN helios).

Have it as a NVG/ Radar Altimeter/ Search Radar, "Ma Duce" 0.50 Cal HMG armed anti Fisheries patrol/SASR Support Helio and cut our losses.

I know the alarm bells should have sounded some five years ago when the prime avionics contractor split from the scene.

I just don't get it how we, like building a house, don't have progress payments on certain levels of production.

More expensive lessens! :huh:

Off the soapbox again!!

[gph]

Makes sense to me. Stay on the soap box Gordy, and send a drop copy to the Minister!!!

GPH B)

[mark]

I am an unashamed Warhawk fan.

I nominate Gordy for the new Minister for Defence....

yet somehow I think Warhawk might be smart enough to stay out of politics.

regards mark

[Dean]

Wow. Defence has admitted a mistake. That's a first. How much longer before they admit the JSF is a mistake?

So what is the replacement likely to be? Any guesses? MH101?

[darren.crick]

I guess on recent history the JSF mistake will come out 5 years after we have paid for em!

[Warhawk]

Thanks Guys

I hear John Howard may be leaving soon,.....a vacancy?

Lol. Nope.

Truly,..given that we put man on the moon back in 1969,....37 years ago,.... we can surely make a SH-2G fly safely? After all, the embedded Cogs, steam gauges, and Transitors of the 60s worked surprisingly well in the SH-2F!! :)

Last shots?

Put the mob that did the F-111 AUP onto it!!!

Where's the old fashion BODS with the grey overcoats gone with that "we can tweak and fix it" attitude.

Why not get the Australian company CEA, if they're interested in it, who can make a world beating Phased Array Radar onto it with all of the Software working "and" exceeding expectations( Wonder if the expectations are based on USA Solutions? Difference is that they work?) B)

Phew,.......is there any common sense left out there?

Might as well drag the Wessex out of the Museums and arm them with antique AS-12;'s on them as did the RN did in the 60's (Think that's right the number)

Incidently, I think some are of the same age(Though the former are re-built).

Incidently who ordered them,,,,,Labor or the Libs,..since Labor is quiet I guess they're passing this one up,.....Oh Beasley wasn't it??? The little General,...Strange eh??? No comments from them on the subject.

Last thought:

How would have a Wessex II Mk31Delta, re-engined with RTM322s and a five blade rotar, armed with Hellfires go?,...Same damn principle and idea per SH-2G isn't it?

Not a winner in it's current form.

The subject dies and I lie low B)

[Demon50]

" The Australian navy bought 11 of the helicopters from US defence contractor Kaman Aerospace for $1 billion in 1997, but the Seasprites have been plagued by technical problems and has never been fully operational. "

That makes the purchase less than two years into the Libs first term - but we shouldn't blame the pollies.

Some of these uniform chappies need to lose their careers to perhaps get a message started within the Defence Procurement business but Defence does a wondeful job of protecting its own or finding a few junior scapegoats to take the rap so that won't happen.

[Warhawk]

true and well said. I stand corrected on the Pollies.

I still can't believe that they can't fix the problem. They need a fresh look at it of what would be acceptable operational gear.

Still a nice looking aircraft and I hope that they can fix it.

Thanks
Gordy :o

Defence Department photograph below:

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[darren.crick]

I have only seen a static aussie example, but I have seen an NZ one fly and it certainly looks nice...

(my images from Wanaka 200 below)

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[darren.crick]

two...

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[darren.crick]

and three...

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[darren.crick]

and here's a shot of mine of an Aussie Seasprite...

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[penders]

Interesting to note the troubles that the Navy had at first with the Collins class subs and how good have they turned out now....I think that they are the best non nuke subs in the world, hope the seasprite has a similar outcome. B)