Brothers Killed In Raaf Pt 2

I have just been reading through a document (900+ pages!) I received from the Office of Australia War Graves earlier this year which made it easier to locate several brothers who all died during their service with the RAAF in WWII.

Two sets of Menzies brothers were lost in 42
AC1 William Earnest Menzies (10 Sqn RAAF) and his brother Plt Off Alan Roy Menzies (453 Sqn RAAF) were both lost in air action in 42 within two months of each other, on 8 Aug and 11 Oct 42 respectively. Both are commemorated on the Runnymeade Memorial.

Sgt Stewart Keith Menzies (211 Sqn RAF)and F/Sgt Colin Kerr Menzies (101 Sqn RAF) were lost in Sumatra Feb 42 and Germany Apr 43 respectively.

Sgt Raymond Thomas Brewin (457 Sqn RAAF) and W/O Patrick Hope Brewin (461 Sqn RAAF) are also commemorated on the Runnymeade Memorial and were lost Nov 42 and Oct 44 respectively.

There are still more and I will be locating them very soon.

Just found.

Sgt John George Ley (131 OTU RAF) killed 22 Nov 43; and
Flg Off Andrew Thomas Ley (463 Sqn RAAF), killed 29 Oct 44.

Both brothers are also on the Runnymeade Memorial.

Updated:

Five sets of known brothers.

Flt Lt William John Yarra, DFM lost on 10 Dec 42 and commemorated on Runnymeade and Robert is buried at Abbeville Communal Cemetery.

Plt Off Robert Ernest Yarra lost on 14 Apr 44 and is buried at Abbeville Communal Cemetery.

Do u have?

Sgt George Frederick RAFFEN (416364) killed in accident at 2 OTU on 24/1/43 and F/O John Percy RAFFEN killed with 3 Sqn in same year on 30/12/43.

Cheers...Gordon

I do now. Thanks Gordon.

Cheers

Good. I'llsee what else I can come across.

Cheers...Gordon

Do you have:

F/O James Boyd Thyer, 47716, KIA with 75 NZ Squadron 19/3/45

F/Sgt Leon John Thyer, 417014, KIA 150 Squadron RAF 23/1/44

These two boys, twins, were born at Peterborough on 17/9/23 - the entire family seem to have been unlucky with a family-related murder/suicide of a wife and 5 children by their husband and father in the district's pioneering days, at Dawson precisely. It's so sad that some families just seem to be ill-fated.

Dean,

I recieved an update tonight which fits in with this discussion;

"You have the pilot of A20-404 as Noel Edmund Giddings. His name is Noel Elford . I am a friend of his brother Jeff Giddings of Ballarat.
His other brother Bryan Wilba Giddings was killed in a Lancaster in Europe. "

I am not sure which unit Bryan was a member of at the time of his death.

Regards,

Darren

Thanks Darren.
I'm very slowly getting all these chaps together. Once I have done the RAAF I'll try and work on RAAF/Army and RAAF/Navy siblings who were killed.

Hi Dean,

re Bryan Giddings - Pilot Officer Bryan Wilbur Giddings, RAAF Serial # 416949, born 19/3/15 at Millicent SA. Next of Kin at time of death, William Giddings.
KIA 10/6/44, serving with 97 (Straits Settlements) Squadron RAF, 8 Group Pathfinders -flying Lancasters. Bryan is commemorated on the Honour Roll at Millicent Town Hall.

Hope this helps?
Shane

Hi Millsy,
Thanks very much. It does help. And thanks for the info on Thyer also. It's hard to imagine one family losing two or more family members, and sometimes so close after one another.

Cheers

Dean,

You mentioned about a family losing many sons well.....

Do u have the following?

268072 F/O Clive Robert Bernard who was one of 5 brothers born in Newcastle, NSW. He was involved in the evacuation of civilians from Wau, NG in early Feb 1942 in a Lockheed 14 VH-ADS. On 14/2/42 while taking off in bad weather conditions from Cairns strip VH-ADS crashed and both crew members were killed.

259 S/L Clifford Sidney Bernard was killed when attempting to land his Beaufort on returning from a night operation on 28/9/42, he crashed into the sea. He was with 100 Sqn at the time.

To add to their parents concern the only brother to join the AIF was Bill Bernard and he was a member of Kanga Force and served several times behind enemy lines! He survived the war, but later died of war related sicknesses.

Finally 64045 Arthur Dudley Bernard joined the RAAF in 1942 and served in Australia. He re-enlisted after the war and was one of 16 killed in the crash of Lincoln A73-11 on 19/2/48 at Amberley just 9 days short of his 24th birthday.

For completeness the 5th brother was David Bernard who also joined the RAAF during the war and served with No 62 Works Wing in the NG area. As of the late 1990s he was the only brother alive and the only one to survive his time in the RAAF.

Who would want to be their parents? They must have died with broken hearts. :(

Gordon

Hi Gordon,
I know that many families would have had troubles dealing with the loss of one family member but to lose 3 in different aircraft accidents (even if over a period of time) then another from a war related illness must have been unbearable.

This is exactly the sort of information I am wanting. This is now being added to a new part/chapter of my research.

My thanks to you and everyone else. If you find any more information please let me know.

> This is exactly the sort of information I am wanting. This is now being added to a new part/chapter of my research.

That's good. It's great to see their sacrifice being remembered. Now that is up to this generation.

Gordon

<!--QuoteBegin-gordon+Sep 30 2005, 05:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (gordon @ Sep 30 2005, 05:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dean,

You mentioned about a family losing many sons well.....

Who would want to be their parents? They must have died with broken hearts. :(

Gordon <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->

That was the premise behind "Saving Private Ryan" - the real "Private Ryan" whose name escapes me was pulled out of combat and sent home after losing 2 or 3 brothers in a few months. The US War Dept. decided enough was enough and sent him home as an instructor. The loss of all 7 Sullivan brothers in the USN on one ship (!!) (commemorated by the cruiser USS Sullivan) prompted this action.

When my dad was in the AIF in WW2 brothers were officially discouraged from serving in the same unit - although the few times when it happened, they served in different companies. My Uncle Frank, (2/27Bn) was seperated from Uncle Jack (2/3 Machine Gun Bn) on their joining up. Uncle Jack was discharged after one month due to his railway work being deemed more important - but considering what happened to 2/3 MG in Java, and given that Uncle Frank was posted MIA later in the year, 1942 could have been a year of major family tragedy - also with Dad's younger brother being killed at El Alamein in October.

How the families suffered has never been fully documented I think. Worth a book, but they had a hard time certainly.

This post has been edited by millsy2 on Oct 11 2005, 04:34 PM

That's very interesting Millsy. I wasn't aware that the AIF did that, though as u mention splitting them up still didn't stop them being KIA or MIA. Does anyone know if the RAAF had a similar policy?

I lost an uncle in Changi and another in Ambon, with the latter having a twin brother in Darwin at the time of the fighting on Ambon. Still don't know how my grandmother survived it all.

Hey all. I've just come across something very interesting. This is the first time I have seen something like this and could be the only one like it.

FLTLT C.T. O'Brien 404257 (survived)
SGT J.J. O'Brien 404258 (kia 10 Jul 42)

Note the sequential service numbers. Naturally I expect these two to be brothers however the NOK information is not the same so they could even be cousins.

Does any one know of any others like this?

There's the list as it stands at the moment. I expect there is still more to come.



Bernard
F/O Clive Robert Bernard 268072 14 Feb 42
S/L Clifford Sidney Bernard 259 28 Sep 42
Bill Bernard AIF
Cpl Arthur Dudley Bernard 64045 19 Feb 48

268072 F/O Clive Robert Bernard who was one of 5 brothers born in Newcastle,
NSW. He was involved in the evacuation of civilians from Wau, NG in early Feb 1942 in a Lockheed 14 VH-ADS. On 14/2/42 while taking off in bad weather conditions from Cairns strip VH-ADS crashed and both crew members were killed.

259 S/L Clifford Sidney Bernard was killed when attempting to land his Beaufort on returning from a night operation on 28/9/42, he crashed into the sea. He was with 100 Sqn at the time.

To add to their parents concern the only brother to join the AIF was Bill Bernard and he was a member of Kanga Force and served several times behind enemy lines! He survived the war, but later died of war related sicknesses.

Finally 64045 Arthur Dudley Bernard joined the RAAF in 1942 and served in Australia. He re-enlisted after the war and was one of 16 killed in the crash of Lincoln A73-11 on 19/2/48 at Amberley just 9 days short of his 24th birthday.

For completeness the 5th brother was David Bernard who also joined the RAAF during the war and served with No 62 Works Wing in the NG area. As of the late 1990s he was the only brother alive and the only one to survive his time in the RAAF.

Brewin
Sgt Raymond Thomas Brewin 400692 (457 Sqn RAAF) Nov 42 (29 Nov 41)?
W/O Patrick Hope Brewin 418247 (461 Sqn RAAF) 01 Oct 44
Both commemorated on the Runnymeade Memorial.

Clarke
F/O John York Clarke 415119 (158 Sqn) 28 Aug 43
F/Lt. Robert Mayo Clarke 427294 DFC (635 Sqn) 08 Jan 45

Dimmock
F/Sgt Harold Edgar Dimmock 404819 03 Jun 42
F/Sgt T.F Dimmock 405300 23 Jan 43
Both serving in 12 Sqn (RAF) at time of death

Eddison
Flt Lt Edward Dalkeith Eddison 563 (30 Sqn RAAF) 27 May 43
PTE J.O. Eddison NX60320 (2/20 Bn A.I.F.) 07 Jun 43
Died within two weeks of each other.

Gibson
Flg Off Douglas Clarke Gibson 402946 (227 Sqn RAF) 15 Jun 42
F/Sgt James Geoffrey Gibson 420465 (460 Sqn RAAF) 18 Nov 43

Lake
F/Sgt Donald Carmichael Lake 421737 18 Oct 43
F/Sgt James Byrne Lake 424904 14 Aug 44

Lee
F/Sgt Beveerley Gordon Lee 426753 30 Jun 44
F/Sgt Desmond Maurice Lee 434687 04 Dec 44

Ley
Sgt John George Ley 426623 (131 OTU RAF) 22 Nov 43
Flg Off Andrew Thomas Ley 425475 (463 Sqn RAAF) 29 Oct 44
Both brothers are also on the Runnymeade Memorial.

Lopez
Flg Off James Albert Lopez 402448 18 Nov 41
Flg Off Robin Henry Lopez 421603 24 Sep 44
Both are buried at Cambridge city cemetery.

Menzies
AC1 William Earnest Menzies 21152 (10 Sqn RAAF) 08 Aug 42
Plt Off Alan Roy Menzies 403676 (453 Sqn RAAF) 11 Oct 42
Both lost in air action in 42 within two months of each other. Both are
commemorated on the Runnymeade Memorial.

Menzies
Sgt Stewart Keith Menzies 400417 (211 Sqn RAF) 06 Feb 42
F/Sgt Colin Kerr Menzies 416594 (101 Sqn RAF) 17 Apr 43
Lost in Sumatra Feb 42 and Germany Apr 43 respectively.

Miller
F/Sgt Sydney Frederick Miller 404783 01 Jun 43
W/O Harold Arthur Miller 405083 13 Aug 43
Both listed on Runnymeade Memorial.

O’Donohue
F/Lt Thomas John O’Donohue DFM 404487 29 Feb 44
Flight Sergeant Patrick Francis O'Donohue 426796 06 Mar 45

F/Lt Thomas John O’DONOHUE DFM was an Observer and Bombing Leader, 159 Squadron. He was killed on 29th February 1944, age 24. Listed as missing with no known grave and is commemorated on Singapore Memorial, Column 443, at Kranji War Cemetery, Singapore. B-24 Liberator Mk. III, BZ926 “P� for “Pegasus� Skipper: F/Lt Edward J. Stanley Took off 16.30 hrs from Digri (West Bengal, India) to bomb Mahlwagon Rail Yards, Rangoon, Burma. After being illuminated by searchlights over Rangoon at approximately 21.00 hrs, BZ926 was attacked and set alight by Ki-43 Oscar pilots Bunichi Yamaguchi and Hiroshi Takiguchi of the JAAF 204th Sentai. Anti-aircraft fire is also believed to have damaged “Pegasus�. Six baled out and were captured, but O’Donohue, skipper E.D. Stanley, and air gunner S.W. Chalcraft were never seen again and are believed to have died aboard “Pegasus�. Wreckage never found. Four of six prisoners survived to be liberated from Rangoon Central Jail.

F/SGT Patrick Francis O'Donohue 426796 was a Wireless Operator/Air Gunner with 514 Squadron and died 6th March 1945, age 21 and is buried at Reichswald Forest War Cemetery, Germany. Avro Lancaster Mk. III, ME365, JI-T. Skipper: F/O L. Flack RCAF
Took off 08.19 hrs from Waterbeach to bomb the Wintershall oil plant at Salzbergen, NW of Rheine, using G-H methods. Blew up 12.05 hrs over the target area. All (crew of seven) are buried in the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery.

Raffen
Sgt George Frederick Raffen 416364 24 Jan 43
Flg Off John Percy Raffen 407183 30 Dec 43

Ratcliffe
W/O Vince Ratcliffe 403373 02 Jun 43
F/Sgt Peter Ratcliffe 423325 19 Nov 43
Their brother F/Lt Harry Ratcliffe, DFC completed a tour as a navigator on
Bomber Command in 1944. Vince was a pilot and Peter was a navigator.

Richins
Plt Off Denis Richard Richins 422298 (460 SQN) 23 Oct 44
Flg Off Stuart William Legge Richins 421507 (51 OTU) 22 Apr 44
Both are buried at Cambridge city cemetery.

Sandilands
Flt Lt James Walter Sandilands 402405, DFC 13 Apr 44
Flg Off Geoffrey Bruce Hope Sandilands 16 Oct 44

Smith
Sgt Frank Raymond Smith 403537 07 Aug 42
F/Sgt Raymond Purser Smith 420780 (57 Sqn RAF) 23 Sep 43

Sullivan
Sgt Maurice Anthony Sullivan 400359, GM 18 Dec 41
(Runnymeade Memorial)
Flt Lt Laurence Gerard Sullivan 409250, DFM 10 Jan 45
(Harrogate)

Thyer
F/O James Boyd Thyer 47716 19 Mar 45
Ambon Missing Memorial
F/Sgt L.J. Thyer 417014 23 Jan 44

Webb
F/Sgt Alfred James Webb (61 OTU RAF) 14 May 43
Plt Off Joseph William Webb (35 Sqn RAF) 23 Dec 44
F/Sgt A.J. Webb, was killed in Spitfire P8268 of 61 OTU when it collided with
Wellington BK186 during fighter affiliation and crashed at Whittingslow, South Shropshire. His brother Joseph William was killed flying a Lancaster of 35 Squadron, 23rd December 1944. The youngest brother, Douglas John served as a Sergeant in the Army and fortunately survived the war.

Wood
Flg Off Maurice Garnett Wood 850 20 Jun 41
Flt Lt John Richard Wood 280849 12 Jun 43

Yarra
Flt Lt William John Yarra, DFM 10 Dec 42
Plt Off Robert Ernest Yarra 14 Apr 44
William is commemorated on Runnymeade and Robert is buried at Abbeville
Communal Cemetery.

Dean,

An impressive list already.

I was interested in Sgt Stewart Menzies from 211 Sqn killed over Sumatra. I initially assumed a Hurricane pilot, but it was a Blenheim. Was Sgt Menzies a pilot, navigator or gunner?

Gordon

Dean,

why dont you publish the current list in our newsletter and see what comes out of the woodwork?

Darren

Yeah, I have been thinking about that, Darren. However, I have done absolutely no work on either project for some months now. I don't have the time anymore and I think I just needed the break from it for a while as well. But I hope I can get back into it in the near future.

I'll try and organise something for inclusion in the next issue.

Gordon,
At this stage I am not sure about SGT Stewart Menzies being a Pilot. From the Casualty Cards that feature his name I would say that he was not a Pilot.

Also do you have any more information on the Benard brothers at all?

Dean, What sort of info were u after about the Bernard brothers?

Also a bit of trivia about the Yarra brothers. John was 21yrs 3mths when KIA and Robert was 21yrs and 2mths when killed.

Freaky.

Gordon

Hi Gordon,
I am after more information on Bill Bernard if possible. I would like to know the date he died firstly but also what unit he served in, where he served, how he was injured and the nature of his injuries.

Thanks