Tigers

[Dean]

I had a close up inspection of A38-004 and I must say it is ugly and looks ungainly (on the ground) for an aircraft. However this is exactly what they said about the F-4 Phantom II and what an aircraft that was.

Just looking at the Tiger you know it will mean business on the battlefield. It is a very nice looking cockpit with helmets that look like they have been taken out of Star Wars.

The aircraft was transiting through on its way to somewhere and was loaded with dummy Hellfires and rocket pods (as seen in the main page photo) having just come from somewhere else. All I can say is .. very nice.

[Brendan Cowan]

Hi Dean,

I have to agree.

It seems with battlefield helicopters that the aesthetic quality is inversely proportional to combat effectiveness!

BTW - I wonder how many Tigers have been handed over to the Army and accepted at this point?

Cheers

BC

[darren.crick]

I recieved an email not long ago on the status of deliveries, there wasnt many officialy handed over. It is my understanding some will be delayed due to a lack of storage space at Oakey.

[Brendan Cowan]

Thanks Darren,

I lost track after they handed the thrid airframe over.

Welcome back!

BC

:D

[darren.crick]

My understanding is the number delivered is 4, that is getting a little old.

[darren.crick]

here are some recently provide images of A38-007 when it is eventually handed over...

Attached Image

[darren.crick]

and another...

Attached Image

[darren.crick]

ADF Aircraft Serial Numbers
A38 Eurocopter Tiger
Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter

The following Aircraft History is as at 23 January 2006, and has been compiled by Len Avery.

Aircraft Serial No Const No Aircraft History
A38-001 4001 Assembled in France. The fuselage sections were joined at Marignane (France) on 11 February 2003. Ground testing began in October 2003 and the maiden Test Flight was carried out on 20 February 2004.

This aircraft was used to conduct firing tests for the 70mm rocket system in Jun/Jul 2004 which achieved the majority of the certification requirements for the 70mm rocket system.

Tests were also completed on the laser range finder/designator using Hellfire II Captive Air Training Missile (CATM).

Delivered to Australian Aerospace, Brisbane, on 24 November 2004.

Following the Army Acceptance Test Flight on 14 December the aircraft was formally accepted by the Department of Defence. The aircraft was subsequently flown to the Aerospace facilities, Army Aviation Base at Oakey, Queensland, where on 15 December the aircraft was officially accepted by the Department of Defence.

In Mach 2005, following a static display at the Avalon Airshow the aircraft was flown to ARDU in South Australia for evaluation and Hellfire missile firing at the Woomera Range.

On 28 May, the first AGM-114M Hellfire II missile was fired from an Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter (ARH) and was successfully completed at the Woomera Range, with remarkable accuracy into a target at 6km. The firing was a milestone in the integration of the US designed Lockheed Hellfire II missile and the M299 launcher on to the French/German designed Eurocopter platform.

Further Hellfire Missile firing was carried out during Nov/Dec 05 before the aircraft was returned to Oakey, QLD.





-2-

A38-002 4002 Assembled in France at the Eurocopter factory at Marignane.

Maiden test flight carried out on 24 July 2004.

Delivered to Australian Aerospace, Brisbane, on 24 November 2004.

Following the Army Acceptance Test Flight on 14 December the aircraft was formally accepted by the Department of Defence. The aircraft was subsequently flown to the Aerospace facilities, Army Aviation Base at Oakey, Queensland, where on 15 December the aircraft was officially accepted by the Department of Defence.

A38-003 4003 Assembled in France at the Eurocopter factory at Marignane.

Maiden test flight carried out on 09 September 2004.

This aircraft remained in France to finalise the certification and ongoing training of Australian Army pilots.

Delivered to Australian Aerospace, Brisbane, on 30 May 2005.

In service dates and details to be advised. (Early 2006).

A38-004 4004 Assembled in France at the Eurocopter factory at Marignane.

Maiden test flight carried out on 09 September 2004.

This aircraft remained in France to finalise the certification and ongoing training of Australian Army pilots.

Delivered to Australian Aerospace, Brisbane, on 30 May 2005.

Acceptance Test Flight carried out on 03 October and the aircraft was flown to the Australian Aerospace facilities at Oakey.









-3-

A38-005 4005 Assembly of this the first ARH Tiger helicopter in Australia commenced on 31 March 2003, at the Australian Aerospace facilities at Brisbane Airport.

Maiden Test Flight was carried out on 20 December 2004.

Acceptance Test Flight carried out on 18 July 2005 and the aircraft was flown to the Australian Aerospace facilities at Oakey.

A38-006 4006 Assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane.

Maiden Test Flight carried out on 28 June 2005.

In service dates and details to be advised. (Early 2006).


A38-007 4007 Assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane.

Maiden Test Flight carried out on 10 November 2005.

On 16 January 2006, this aircraft was flown to Oakey for painting.

On completion of painting the aircraft will be returned to Brisbane for further flight tests prior to being delivered to the Department of Defence.

In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-008 4008 Currently being assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane.
In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-009 4009 Currently being assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane.
In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-010 4010 Currently being assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane.
In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-011 4011 Currently being assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane.
In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-012 4012 Currently being assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane.
In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-013 4013 Currently being assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane. In service dates and details to be advised.


-4-

A38-014 4014 Currently being assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane. In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-015 4015 Currently being assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane. In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-016 4016 Currently being assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane. In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-017 4017 Currently being assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane. In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-018 4018 To be assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane. In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-019 4019 To be assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane. In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-020 4020 To be assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane. In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-021 4021 To be assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane. In service dates and details to be advised.

A38-022 4022 To be assembled by Australian Aerospace, Brisbane. In service dates and details to be advised.

(Projected in service date of this aircraft - April 2008).





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[goggsy]

Good to see the great politcal minds have made another major stuff up..

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2006/05/02/1146335732433.html?from=top5

The funny thing is ALL of this could have been avoided.

A test pilot (not Army, I dont want to put his name here) stated that during trials of the tiger in the Townsville region that the aircraft was continually into contingency power without being at close to full payload.
Another option was to purchase more blackhawks and incorporate a weapons system to the ESSS configuration. logistics already inplace, good reliable aircraft (A lot of issues with the aircraft can be put down to logistics such as not enough spare parts, having a hybrid configuration instead of a stock standard issue, most of the fleet made by dirty harry's (a lot of corrosion issues were a combination of environment and poor assembly, with most metal to metal skin panels missing barrier creams to prevent moisture ingress which was fixed by the sheeties at 5Avn). I could go on about the blackhawk saga for ages, might make a list a post it in the blackhawk forum. Also it is a faster aircraft, greater load capacity....all the operational problems have been ironed out.

From a reliable source, the Director of Army Aviation at the time of the project recommended other aircraft over the tiger...

Why did they bother with a test pilot during the project or even ask the main army aviation person what they wanted....
For the next project why dont we ust ask for quotes and take the cheapest...

Has obviously worked this time :rolleyes:

[Demon50]

I don't think the politicians should take all the blame on these procurement fiascos which happen far too often - F111, Seasprite, Collins subs, C130J, Abrams tanks, Steyr rifle etc etc - the list goes on and on.

Surely it's the Defence establishment, public servants, lobbyists and civilian advisors who make the recommendations to their political masters in the first place that should accept most of the blame when things go wrong ?

After all, these are the so called professional people who are around all the time and supposedly know what they are doing. A layman would think that years of experience should enable them to make good decisions.

But Governments come and go at the whim of the electorate.

Perhaps the advisors want brownie points and promotions so over specify and want a system to be all things to all men and won't accept a lesser system which could do the job. Did we really need the Tiger to be "Australianised" when the AH1W could have probably done the job and has been proved in combat ?

It also operates from Norway to Irag so probably would have been ideal for Australia, albeit an old design.

But let's face it, I really don't think an Australian Government would ever commit such assets in a conflict unless the Australian mainland was threatened.

I believe that the Labour Government refused a US request for our F111s in the first Gulf War and the present Liberal Government may have also refused another such request in the second Gulf War. Politically, it's far more sensible to commit C130s and Orions to such places.

Yes, we committed F/A18s but I don't think they were allowed to range too far and wide in case some were lost.

And imagine the furore if an Aussie F111 had been lost on a bombing run over Baghdad. Pollies would have fainted at the thought !

I'm no expert and my military service was confined to two years in the CMF in the 70s.

But as a taxpayer, I'm continually bewildered at the way Defence gets major equipment purchases wrong.

Surely to God, somebody somewhere in the Russell Offices could get something right occasionally.

I've just finished reading "Skunk Works", the memoirs of Ben Rich's time at Lockheed from the 1954 to 1990 when the U2, F104, SR71 and many other "black" projects were developed and brought to fruition.

It should be compulsory reading for all the Australian procurement decision makers.

[Rod Farquhar]

I think Demon may be right.
Some of these major suppliers have mighty deep pockets and are not averse to oiling the way a bit.
It would be nice to have some good news for a change.
Rod. ;)

[Warhawk]

The Audit report is out per Tiger.

It isn't pretty reading! Seems there have been no acceptances since #004 due to some inherit problems. The French and German Powder puffs aren't happy either with theirs.

Getting an aircraft at the start of the production before all is ironed out seems to be the main theme,..rather like F-111, SeaSprite, and what soon ,....the F-35? (We can't get them in country till late 2013 due to agreement!)

What about the M113A4(Aus) for Pete's sake!! 12 years on!!!!

Best Buys of the ninties,....ASLAVS, almost stock standard (There's a hint) save for tyres, Paint job, Bush guards and crew ( They're the best)

Lessens to be learnt,......

1st Lesson, Like Singapore and Britain,..buy a stock standard type AH-64D or even a OH-58Eeee on steriods( The newer Bell 407 Model I'm saying)

2nd Lesson to be learnt, buy a mature design with all the bells and whisles: Singapore and South Korea,..Mrs Mac's F-15K/SG with APG-63(V)3AESA radar and full load of delivery options

3rd Lesson already learnt, buying advanced DDG-51 with all the gear. But add the extra Gas turbine !!!

Last lession already learnt,...The M1A1 is it Baby,..Mr big man on the block, should have had it years ago!

But get the boys some Brads to keep up with them,...M3A6

I'll get off my soap box again,,...sorry.

:huh: Gordy

[irokin]

FWIW they were flying a tiger a few weeks back (4? or so) doing what looked like climb rate tests (??) around Amberley area. Need an SLR with a massive lense so I can take pictures!!

[Warhawk]

And something refreshing,..from past and present Diggers themselves



http://www.fourays.org/features_2005/chickenhawk/chickenhawk6.htm

Pretty good site too

Gordy :ph34r:

"Why buy a range rover when a Suzi can do the job better."

[cj0203]

I occasionaly see one over Raaf amberley. saw one today, they seem to be coming from the Brisbane area and return that way. I've never seen one head off past amberley to Oakey area. could be newer ones, i wouldn't know. will try and get a pic one day!

[darren.crick]

006 is on static display at Avalon and I have been told 2 are at Point Cook...